Dems Continue to Rehabilitate and Unify With Bush-Era Neocons

[Amadeus]

^ should I answer this trash? one thing to clarify is Buddhist doctrine is apolitical.

I never said anything about Buddhism being political. In Buddhism, Putin would be considered a purveyor of the Three Poisons -- advocating ignorance/delusion (fake news), greed (oligarchy), and ill-will (political disruption and murderous foreign intervention). Putin would be an obstacle on the path to enlightenment, and it's a shame that you've succumbed to him rather than avoided him.

 

[anatta]

I never said anything about Buddhism being political. In Buddhism, Putin would be considered a purveyor of the Three Poisons -- advocating ignorance/delusion (fake news), greed (oligarchy), and ill-will (political disruption and murderous foreign intervention). Putin would be an obstacle on the path to enlightenment, and it's a shame that you've succumbed to him rather than avoided him.

If I were a Putin pony, then perhaps -athough I could find much to criticize the USA.

Choosing to accept the reality of Putin's existence is Right View; it's delusional not to.
We might want things to change, but we have to accept things as they are. Putin is extant

Somewhere I read..The best way to de-fang Putin is to integrate Russia into the western world.
sanctions are counter-productive to that goal.
You don't love him, hate him, praise him, or excoriate him ,and think that is a sufficent way to deal with him.
Again: look at my sig

 

[Amadeus]

If I were a Putin pony, then perhaps -athough I could find much to criticize the USA.

Choosing to accept the reality of Putin's existence is Right View; it's delusional not to.

No, you are choosing to accept the 'reality' of Putin's VIEWPOINT, not his existence. Accepting Putin's existence is no different than accepting Kim Jong Un's existence.

We might want things to change, but we have to accept things as they are. Putin is extant

What you're doing is conceding ALL arguments to Putin by virtue of his existence. You are forgetting the Buddhist truth of impermanence. Putin is not a fixture of reality, but rather a very movable obstacle. A transient force.

Somewhere I read..The best way to de-fang Putin is to integrate Russia into the western world.

I also read that Putin is very much at his CORE anti-Western, and the best way to enable Putin is to repeat the mistakes of Bush and Obama by attempting to deal with him as anything other than an international pariah who seeks the destruction of the West and dominance of Russia.

sanctions are counter-productive to that goal.

Except that your goal is not the goal that America or the international community should seek.

It's very much the WRONG View to think of Putin as anything other than a destructive and counter-Western player.

 

[anatta]

No, you are choosing to accept the 'reality' of Putin's VIEWPOINT, not his existence. Accepting Putin's existence is no different than accepting Kim Jong Un's existence.

I look to the reality of the relationship -expressed as realpolitik.
We do not make or control Putin, or moralize over his government to the extent it effects how we deal with him.
when we substitute morals for management of a relationship it is not reality based
It's the same idea that "human right's" cannot be the driver of foreign policy.

Understanding his viewpoint is not "accepting" it either as valid or not.
Understanding any world leader's motives is always helpful in dealing wit them

What you're doing is conceding ALL arguments to Putin by virtue of his existence. You are forgetting the Buddhist truth of impermanence. Putin is not a fixture of reality, but rather a very movable obstacle. A transient force.

impermanence is long term. Short term reality is he is extant.
Telling me "Putin is not a fixture of reality" is obviously a confused view.

I also read that Putin is very much at his CORExcept that your goal is nE anti-Western, and the best way to enable Putin is to repeat the mistakes of Bush and Obama by attempting to deal with him as anything other than an international pariah who seeks the destruction of the West and dominance of Russia.

he's anti-western in terms of reacting to how the west has treated him w/NATO expansion.
I have serious doubts it was even "Russian state actors" that hacked Podesta -but no matter.

Putin needs the west. There is not enough economic activity for him to go solely with his
Eurasian Economic community.

He has to sell gas/oil and he really needs western extraction tech for his push into the Arctic .

This is what we should be leveraging, in return for getting him controlled in the Ukraine.
But we chose sanctions instead that may harm him, but give him no reason to change behavior

It's very much the WRONG View to think of Putin as anything other than a destructive and counter-Western player.

it doesn't matter what we think,it only matters what we do.

 

[Cypress]

snip

Somewhere I read..The best way to de-fang Putin is to integrate Russia into the western world.
sanctions are counter-productive to that goal.

Here you demonstrate your complete lack of credibility, and your lack of knowledge of the East Slavic world.

For the most part, Russia does not want to "integrate into the western world.". If you actually knew Russians, and had a deep cultural context for them you would have never written this. Most Russian consider "western values", aka American values to be decadent, an anathema to Russia, to their life experience, and to their Russian Orthodox faith. No question, there has always been liberals and liberal democrats in Russia that look to France, England, and western Europe for inspiration. But most Russians are proud of Mother Russia, their long history, their culture, and see no need to convert to "American values". America is barely 200 years old, and has really only been internationally important for about a century. We Americans tend to overestimate, hype, and exaggerate how important we are on the stage of world culture, world history, and the overall human experience.

The way to approach Russia, is to understand them. Do have a deep knowledge of their culture, their history, their worldview. Something which you do not have.

 

[anatta]

Here you demonstrate your complete lack of credibility, and your lack of knowledge of the East Slavic world.

For the most part, Russia does not want to "integrate into the western world.". If you actually knew Russians, and had a deep cultural context for them you would have never written this. Most Russian consider "western values", aka American values to be decadent, an anathema to Russia, to their life experience, and to their Russian Orthodox faith. No question, there has always been liberals and liberal democrats in Russia that look to France, England, and western Europe for inspiration. But most Russians are proud of Mother Russia, their long history, their culture, and see no need to convert to "American values". America is barely 200 years old, and has really only been internationally important for about a century. We Americans tend to overestimate, hype, and exaggerate how important we are on the stage of world culture, world history, and the overall human experience.

The way to approach Russia, is to understand them. Do have a deep knowledge of their culture, their history, their worldview. Something which you do not have.

I am talking more about economic integration.
While I do not have your first hand knowledge of Slavic brooding/Russian minds, I do know Russia is at least 1/2 half European-forget American.

If Putin wants to advance Russia forward, he can only do so much with hard power-he needs western banking
and long term he needs western tech to diversify his economy.
That's the best way forward. Military escalation serves no purpose but to provide a false sense of security.

If you want Putin to quiet his expansionism, make him part of the world economy (long term)

 

[Rune]

you are always a friend BAC, and I always want to hear your ideas. I have given back rancour myself at times.
It's the nature of us being frank with each other -we are both passionate about what issues we care about.

Have a spiritual morning experience. no worries and no hurrys. I'll be around when you get around to response

:tombushes:

 

[Amadeus]

I look to the reality of the relationship -expressed as realpolitik.
We do not make or control Putin, or moralize over his government to the extent it effects how we deal with him.
when we substitute morals for management of a relationship it is not reality based
It's the same idea that "human right's" cannot be the driver of foreign policy.

Actually, Putin can be controlled with sanctions. The oligarchy which constitutes Putin's stranglehold on Russia depends on the extraction of wealth from the economy into the pockets of the oligarchs. Almost his entire foreign policy SINCE Obama has been geared towards lifting sanctions. He has an army of lobbyists and agents devoted to this effort, and we know for a fact that they've lobbied the Trump administration hard. Putin's hurting. Russia is hurting as a result -- and will hurt even more as oil becomes a less lucrative energy source. That will pay dividends, unless people like you get your way. Oil based economies are doomed. If Russia wants to join the West, it can do so. There's a very easy, voluntary path. It requires giving up the picket-pocketing of the Russian people and allowing them to join the rest of the civilized world.

Understanding his viewpoint is not "accepting" it either as valid or not.
Understanding any world leader's motives is always helpful in dealing wit them

I understood Hitler's viewpoint, and it was wrong, evil and based on lies.

impermanence is long term. Short term reality is he is extant.
Telling me "Putin is not a fixture of reality" is obviously a confused view.

No, a fixture of reality would be death. Putin is a transient entity, not a staple of reality. You know exactly what I mean if you're half the Buddhist you claim. Go look at a Bhavacakra.

he's anti-western in terms of reacting to how the west has treated him w/NATO expansion.
I have serious doubts it was even "Russian state actors" that hacked Podesta -but no matter.

Putin is at war with Western values, even moreso than Iran.

Putin needs the west. There is not enough economic activity for him to go solely with his
Eurasian Economic community.

Putin wishes to re-establish a semblance of the Soviet Union, the collapse of which he feels is the greatest disaster of the 20th century.

He has to sell gas/oil and he really needs western extraction tech for his push into the Arctic .

He hates Western style governments and the Western way of life (e.g. no dictators, freedom, liberty, free speech, etc.).

 

[anatta]

Actually, Putin can be controlled with sanctions. The oligarchy which constitutes Putin's stranglehold on Russia depends on the extraction of wealth from the economy into the pockets of the oligarchs. Almost his entire foreign policy SINCE Obama has been geared towards lifting sanctions. He has an army of lobbyists and agents devoted to this effort, and we know for a fact that they've lobbied the Trump administration hard. Putin's hurting. Russia is hurting as a result -- and will hurt even more as oil becomes a less lucrative energy source. That will pay dividends, unless people like you get your way. Oil based economies are doomed. If Russia wants to join the West, it can do so. There's a very easy, voluntary path. It requires giving up the picket-pocketing of the Russian people and allowing them to join the rest of the civilized world.

ridiculous. sanctions on Crimea have not changed his behaviors - look at Syria. Look at Donbass.
There are more sanctions coming, but Congress is putting controls on them so if Trump and Putin did reach any agreements -even those would be subject to Congressional approval-
which of course makes the use of these new sanctions even more unweildy and even less likely to change Putin's behaviors.

Sanctions are a feel good punishment for the Russiaphobes to dish out,
but are not useful to modifying Putin's modus operandi.

If you want Putin to modify his use of hard power, you have to offer him a path forward.
The best way to do it is to offer Putin an economic incentive such as reduction in forces or what Nordstream 2 does.
Europe buys/builds LNG/Nordsteram in spite of sanctions.
Those Russian oligarchs do need more access to western banking/contracts.
Sanctions prohibit,not encourage economic partnerships.
They are counterproductive to bring in Russia to western economic integration

I understood Hitler's viewpoint, and it was wrong, evil and based on lies.

If you don't understand Putin's motivations/modus operandi -you are guessing at effective counter operations.
Understanding what he wants in Syria, and what lengths he will go to allows us to design an effective policy.
It's a small point

No, a fixture of reality would be death. Putin is a transient entity, not a staple of reality. You know exactly what I mean if you're half the Buddhist you claim. Go look at a Bhavacakra.

i know what it is; it's a symbol for saṃsāra . as you correctly say "everything is impermanent"
but we still have to deal with the reality of today.
I cannot dismiss Putin today, because he'll be in some cyclic lower realm tomorrow.

Putin is at war with Western values, even moreso than Iran.

Technically we both broke the Budapest Agreement on the Ukraine.
Him with the annexation, US w/ the meddling in their euromaiden.

How Putin runs his country is really not our concern, anymore then how Iran runs theirs.
I do not know why realpolitik is such a difficult concept to grasp by you and the Russiaphobes

Putin wishes to re-establish a semblance of the Soviet Union, the collapse of which he feels is the greatest disaster of the 20th century.

. He is not going to invade any NATO member state. what he can do is meddle in western elections, or use propaganda.
we know sanctions will not deter him. so what will?
Giving him a stake in western economic activity.
Making deals with him so it's to his advantage not to meddle but to grow trade/technological assistance for his economy

He hates Western style governments and the Western way of life (e.g. no dictators, freedom, liberty, free speech, etc.).

I think he finds Russia more amendable to authoritarian rule, rather then elections that brought in Yeltsin and western meddling.
He is a very talented autocrat, and can achieve his goals for Russia much quicker this way.

 

[Amadeus]

ridiculous. sanctions on Crimea have not changed his behaviors - look at Syria. Look at Donbass.

Putin clings to Syria out of weakness, not strength. You don't walk into a clusterfuck like Syria unless you are operating out of a humanitarian concern, or you are desperate to cling to a strategic alliance.

There are more sanctions coming, but Congress is putting controls on them so if Trump and Putin did reach any agreements -even those would be subject to Congressional approval-
which of course makes the use of these new sanctions even more unweildy and even less likely to change Putin's behaviors.

Well, it's Putin's choice that he wishes to visit his misfortunes on the Russian people. He won't suffer because he's a billionaire a hundred times over, but the Russians will eventually grow tired of living below the poverty level.

Sanctions are a feel good punishment for the Russiaphobes to dish out,
but are not useful to modifying Putin's modus operandi.

It doesn't benefit Russia that Putin and Russia can be used almost interchangeably.

If you want Putin to modify his use of hard power, you have to offer him a path forward.

Bending America's foreign policy to the will of a saggy-titted bald man from Russia is the ultimate sign of weakness. Russia has a way forward, and it's without Putin.

If you don't understand Putin's motivations/modus operandi -you are guessing at effective counter operations.
Understanding what he wants in Syria, and what lengths he will go to allows us to design an effective policy.
It's a small point

I said I understand Putin's motivations. He's wants power, and secondly he wants to reclaim Soviet era prestige for Russia.

i know what it is; it's a symbol for saṃsāra . as you correctly say "everything is impermanent"
but we still have to deal with the reality of today.
I cannot dismiss Putin today, because he'll be in some cyclic lower realm tomorrow.

Actually, no. Buddhism doesn't concern itself with the destiny of other people. That is up to them. Buddhism is about mastering one's own karmic destiny.

How Putin runs his country is really not our concern, anymore then how Iran runs theirs.
I do not know why realpolitik is such a difficult concept to grasp by you and the Russiaphobes

Either America stands for something, or it doesn't -- in which case, it can turn a blind eye to Russia's actions and enter into all kinds of wacky, one-sided agreements that strengthen Russia at America (and the world's) expense.

He is a very talented autocrat, and can achieve his goals for Russia much quicker this way.

You hit the nail on the head. HIS goals for Russia, aimed towards HIS benefit, not what actually benefits Russia or the people living in Russia. Which I actually care about, as a liberal.

 

[Ralph]

You're not listening .. ANYTHING is better than Trump.

You're free to draw your own conclusions.

If that were "true".....Queen Hillary would be on the throne right now. Simply because you hate the conservative values that has given individuals such as you more opportunity than they can find anywhere else in the world does not indicate that American's are as hatefilled and spiteful as those who vote democrat for the welfare coins..

It was conservative values that passed the 64 equal rights amendment under the protest and longest filibuster in US history presented by your friendly neighborhood democrat party. It was the conservative party that championed equal voting and property ownership rights for women and minorities...against the Democrat party who fought for slavery and against equal rights for women...as the democrats introduced the JIM CROW laws at the federal level with "Woodrow Wilson" signing them into law.

Ignorance and denial is worse than being born mentally challenged as propagandized indoctrination is more difficult to overcome than any physical or mental handicap. Ignorance can be overcome....stupidity is more than skin deep.

 

[Amadeus]

If that were "true".....Queen Hillary would be on the throne right now.

No, it doesn't. Hillary would have been better because she's actually qualified for the job, even though she wouldn't have been my first choice. That Trump was able to win through a series of false/misleading/exaggerated narratives, by playing dirty, and ultimately by selling a big ball of lies is a reflection on Hillary's strength as a political candidate, but moreso it's an indictment on America. Hillary couldn't drum up enthusiasm, and Trump was able to sucker and hoodwink large swaths of people.

I don't mention Russia as a factor because how much they were able to influence opinion via troll legions and through collaboration with the Trump campaign is an unknowable element.

In the end, more people actually favored Hillary over Trump. Millions more.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

because she's actually qualified for the job .

did you think the job was ripping off the American public?.......she had a lot of experience for that......

 

[anatta]

Putin clings to Syria out of weakness, not strength. You don't walk into a clusterfuck like Syria unless you are operating out of a humanitarian concern, or you are desperate to cling to a strategic alliance.

The Iran/Russian geo-alliance is by far the strongest faction in Syria

Well, it's Putin's choice that he wishes to visit his misfortunes on the Russian people. He won't suffer because he's a billionaire a hundred times over, but the Russians will eventually grow tired of living below the poverty level.

he's very popular even though the economy is lousy. they haven't go tired of him yet
how long has he been around? since 1999?

It doesn't benefit Russia that Putin and Russia can be used almost interchangeably.

so far they seem happy with him..but that's not our call is it?

Bending America's foreign policy to the will of a saggy-titted bald man from Russia is the ultimate sign of weakness. Russia has a way forward, and it's without Putin.

Russiaphobic response "weakness". Putin has the 2nd most powerful military in the world,and he's been making gains..maybe we should try another avenue? this one aint working for us.

Actually, no. Buddhism doesn't concern itself with the destiny of other people. That is up to them. Buddhism is about mastering one's own karmic destiny.

"actually no?"
WhereTFuck did you pull that response out of?
You were the one going on and on about Putin not being real or some such transient.
That is the most off-tangent response ever, and yes I'm quite aware that enlightenment/end to karmic cycle is an individual achievement ( although a bodhisattva is also concerned with other's enlightenment)

Either America stands for something, or it doesn't -- in which case, it can turn a blind eye to Russia's actions and enter into all kinds of wacky, one-sided agreements that strengthen Russia at America (and the world's) expense.

uber-hawk talk. We don't need to degrade Russia to strengthen America.
That's Obama speak, or even John McCain where everything is viewed as a zero sum equation.
There are agreements to be done that benefit both sides,and that doesn't make them "weak kneed"
It just makes them smart.

you hit the nail on the head. HIS goals for Russia, aimed towards HIS benefit, not what actually benefits Russia or the people living in Russia. Which I actually care about, as a liberal.

why is it your decision as to what is best for Russia? That's neocon thought.
we'll improve their nation by NATO expansion/sanctions..etc.

How about we worry about what's best for the USA, and let Russia decide it's own course?

 

[Amadeus]

did you think the job was ripping off the American public?.......she had a lot of experience for that......

Pretty bold thing of you to say when Trump's goal is basically to loot the treasury and either dump the cash into his own pockets, or the pockets of the super-rich.

 

[Amadeus]

he's very popular even though the economy is lousy. they haven't go tired of him yet? how long has he been around? since 1999?

Putin controls the media and silences political dissent, in addition to the sanctions being relatively new as far as his reign is concerned. The West opposes dictatorships and oligarchies is in part because they inevitably fall.

so far they seem happy with him..but that's not our call is it?

Kim Jong Un's people are pretty happy with him.

Russiaphobic response "weakness". Putin has the 2nd most powerful military in the world,and he's been making gains..maybe we should try another avenue? this one aint working for us.

Well, I ignore your suggestions because you have a clear and undeniable pro-Putin slant to your ideology. You want to empower him and bend America's foreign policy towards Russian interests. America gains a pittance, Putin gets his sanctions lifted and keeps his ill-gotten gains.

"actually no?"
WhereTFuck did you pull that response out of? You were the one going on and on about Putin not being real or some such transient.

Sorry, I didn't think you'd get so upset with accurately schooling you on Buddhist philosophy.

That is the most off-point response ever,and yes I'm quite aware that enlightenment/end to karmic cycle is an individual achievemenr ( although a bodhisattva is also concerned with other's enlightenment)

A Bodhisattva is an enlightened (but not awakened) being. Not sure what that has to do with you or Putin.

uber-hawk talk. We don't need to degrade Russia to strengthen America.

Putin degrades Russia, not America.

why is it your decision as to what is best for Russia?

Why is it Putin's? What is gained through deceit and malevolence is not legitimate. Putin's rise to power was achieved through extortion, murder, and worse.

 

[anatta]

Putin controls the media and silences political dissent, in addition to the sanctions being relatively new as far as his reign is concerned. The West opposes dictatorships and oligarchies is in part because they inevitably fall.

more ridiculousness . The USA supported Saddam because it was useful for the USA to do so in the Iran-Iraq war. When he became an inconvenience ( Kuwait) the neocons decided he must go.
9-11 was the excuse to do it, none of which anything to do with his "inevitable failure"

Kim Jong Un's people are pretty happy with him.

Lil Kim is a familial dictator. The reigns of power are passed down with a 100% election vote. Nor do I see Russia actively threatening to blow up Europe/USA.
The cold war dance with the USSR and now Russia was always based on the insanity of MAD as a balance of power
Lil Kim is an irrational state actor/Putin is not

Well, I ignore your suggestions because you have a clear and undeniable pro-Putin slant to your ideology. You want to empower him and bend America's foreign policy towards Russian interests. America gains a pittance, Putin gets his sanctions lifted and keeps his ill-gotten gains.

first off Crimea is a done deal.
Putin isn't leaving, so sanctions are not going to change anything.

Siemans sold gas turbines to Russia for energy.

"The turbines had originally been supplied for a power-plant project in Taman, in the Krasnodar region of southern Russia - separated from Crimea by just a few kilometres of water."

Now tell me why it makes any sense for Siemens to do any of the following from a business viewpoint:

Siemens to cut back Russia trade after generators end up in Crimea
Munich-based Siemens said it would freeze deliveries of power generation equipment to state-controlled Russian customers.

It will also divest its minority stake in Russian company Interautomatika, which sells power-plant control systems.

And it will terminate a licensing agreement for power generation equipment that it had signed with Russian firms.

"Siemens is implementing an additional controls regime that is exceeding legal requirements by far," it said.
https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/siemens-to-cut-back-russia-trade-after-generators-end-up-in-crimea

it doesn't help Siemens or the people of Crimea, or the country of Germany, or Russia.
Again I tell you sanctions are about making us feel good, but they are ineffective,
and they come at a cost for ALL involved.

Sorry, I didn't think you'd get so upset with accurately schooling you on Buddhist philosophy.

Not getting into it here -it's a sidebar. I understand a bodhisattva is not a Buddha state of awakening
( although I think they might be in some schools) .
My objection isn't speaking about Buddhism, it's about you going off in tangents from one of your replies to another

Putin degrades Russia, not America.

Let Russia decide it's course, let the USA decide it's own too.
Again you keep telling us how Putin is bad for Russia, and again I tell you that is neocon logic.
It's dangerous meddling in other's affairs.It's not our call what Putin does for Russia either way.

Why is it Putin's? What is gained through deceit and malevolence is not legitimate. Putin's rise to power was achieved through extortion, murder, and worse.

It's up to the Russian people to decide to elect Putin or not.
Just like it was up to citizens of the USA to elect Trump..you know..sovereign states???

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Pretty bold thing of you to say when Trump's goal is basically to loot the treasury and either dump the cash into his own pockets, or the pockets of the super-rich.

ah, nobody really believes that silly shit.......wait, did you?......ROFL.......you did, didn't you.......

 

[Ralph]

No, it doesn't. Hillary would have been better because she's actually qualified for the job, even though she wouldn't have been my first choice. That Trump was able to win through a series of false/misleading/exaggerated narratives, by playing dirty, and ultimately by selling a big ball of lies is a reflection on Hillary's strength as a political candidate, but moreso it's an indictment on America. Hillary couldn't drum up enthusiasm, and Trump was able to sucker and hoodwink large swaths of people.

I don't mention Russia as a factor because how much they were able to influence opinion via troll legions and through collaboration with the Trump campaign is an unknowable element.

In the end, more people actually favored Hillary over Trump. Millions more.

"IF" she "would have" been better.....why did the majority of the states reject her? The ballot box is the only poll that counts it eliminates the the "would'a, could'a, should'a" and removes it from the equation. Its clear....America...especially middle America does not agree with your opinion.

Its like the old axiom, "IF" a bullfrog had wings it would not bump its ass every time it jumped". THE UNITED STATES needed a change and voted for change to reject the corruption and mismanagement that results in criminality at the Washington D.C. hog trough. IF is the most complicated word in the English dictionary as anything is possible in one's imagination...that's the difference between a conservative that deals with the reality that surrounds them and a liberal that lives between his/her ears and projects nothing but ad hominem emotionalism.

And....you don't agree with the liberal catch phrase..... the "tyrannical majority"? Trump was elected by a majority....of THE STATES in an overwhelming manner. Simply because more people choose to live in the liberal la la lands of California and NY State does not assure an electoral victory as its the STATES that choose a potus in this representative republic which is often confused and addressed by ignorant liberals as a social democracy such as the former USSR.

Read Article Four, Section Four, Clause One.....government at all levels in this nation is guaranteed a republican type representation. This clause in the constitution is often accused by liberals as being ambiguous when in reality the companion document that accompanied the Constitution (the federalist papers...that explained why each clause was drafted into the constitution) explains in detail why democracy as a from of government was rejected in this nation's founding in favor of republican representation. (not a political party but a form of government...that eliminates any chance of the supposed "tyrannical majority" running rough shod over those with different opinions and lifestyles). Democracies have always failed in history that's why Madison was against such a from of government...they fail because a pure democracy always ends in violence and revolution due to the uncontrolled efforts of MOBS and a MOB MENTALITY.

Have you ever witnessed a supposed "democrat protest rally"? Its always the same, private property is destroyed, free speech is silenced by violence as they have no respect for individual ownership rights or individual rights once formed into a mob. And this is the type of government advocated by those that lean left? Really?

Federalist No. 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._10

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnpeHjAN57c

 

[Minister of Truth]

What are the odds that anatta is a paid Russian shill?