Eastern philosophy says the self is an illusion

Cypress said:
So I watched ten minutes of the last segments, and there's nothing particularly trippy and nothing I haven't heard before.

They made the point that the brain's neural network and the subconscious is still "you", which is what we have been saying for three weeks.

Nothing trippy at all in the reporting that much of life is unscripted and unplanned, and the emotions and reactions we have aren't neccessarily scripted, planned, or completely in our control.

Turning off the decision-making frontal precortex and getting in tune with your intuition or subconscious improves musical ability, creativity, sports performance. Nothing trippy there. Anyone who has learned to play piano or became good at tennis knows you have to let go of concious focus and let trained intuition and muscle memory take over.

This production might be moderately interesting to reasonably intelligent laypersons. But there was nothing trippy about it. I've seen much better productions and videos on conciousness.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I was curious what was so astounding to Perry.

Agreed. While "you" may be an "illusion" made from several components, I'm a big fan of "results count". cogito ergo sum
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed, but I was curious what was so astounding to Perry.

Agreed. While "you" may be an "illusion" made from several components, I'm a big fan of "results count". cogito ergo sum
Click to expand...

Hard to say why anyone would think that program was super trippy and flabbergasting.

PBS Nova productions appeal to the interested layperson, but this was I nothing I haven't heard before. I imagine as a psychology graduate you were even more underwhelmed than me.
 
Cypress said:
So I watched ten minutes of the last segments, and there's nothing particularly trippy and nothing I haven't heard before.
This production might be moderately interesting to reasonably intelligent laypersons. But there was nothing trippy about it. I've seen much better productions and videos on conciousness.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Of course I actually watched the entire thing and find the science quite fascinating.
 
Last edited:
Cypress said:
Hard to say why anyone would think that program was super trippy and flabbergasting.
Click to expand...

Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary that you attack at every opportunity? Seriously, dude...what is the problem?

PBS Nova productions appeal to the interested layperson, but this was I nothing I haven't heard before. I imagine as a psychology graduate you were even more underwhelmed than me.
Click to expand...

More attacks. What a strange person you are. Why do you feel the need to be unrelentingly unpleasant?
 
Cardinal Carminative said:
Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary that you attack at every opportunity? Seriously, dude...what is the problem?



More attacks. What a strange person you are. Why do you feel the need to be unrelentingly unpleasant?
Click to expand...

His mind is overloaded with knowledge ,but he can't find the common denominator
 
Cypress said:
Hard to say why anyone would think that program was super trippy and flabbergasting.

PBS Nova productions appeal to the interested layperson, but this was I nothing I haven't heard before. I imagine as a psychology graduate you were even more underwhelmed than me.
Click to expand...
It was an interesting program, but I agree it was nothing groundbreaking....even for a graduate from the late 1970s.

It reminded me of the term "sense of agency" which usually has religious overtones. IMO, "free will" and "sense of agency" are the same thing. Same result.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn.2017.14/
Sense of agency in the human brain
In adult life, people normally know what they are doing. This experience of controlling one's own actions and, through them, the course of events in the outside world is called 'sense of agency'. It forms a central feature of human experience; however, the brain mechanisms that produce the sense of agency have only recently begun to be investigated systematically. This recent progress has been driven by the development of better measures of the experience of agency, improved design of cognitive and behavioural experiments, and a growing understanding of the brain circuits that generate this distinctive but elusive experience. The sense of agency is a mental and neural state of cardinal importance in human civilization, because it is frequently altered in psychopathology and because it underpins the concept of responsibility in human societies.
 
Doc Dutch said:
It was an interesting program, but I agree it was nothing groundbreaking....even for a graduate from the late 1970s.

It reminded me of the term "sense of agency" which usually has religious overtones. IMO, "free will" and "sense of agency" are the same thing. Same result.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn.2017.14/
Sense of agency in the human brain
In adult life, people normally know what they are doing. This experience of controlling one's own actions and, through them, the course of events in the outside world is called 'sense of agency'. It forms a central feature of human experience; however, the brain mechanisms that produce the sense of agency have only recently begun to be investigated systematically. This recent progress has been driven by the development of better measures of the experience of agency, improved design of cognitive and behavioural experiments, and a growing understanding of the brain circuits that generate this distinctive but elusive experience. The sense of agency is a mental and neural state of cardinal importance in human civilization, because it is frequently altered in psychopathology and because it underpins the concept of responsibility in human societies.
Click to expand...

I also noticed the program's reference to agency, which is a quasi-Christian theme.

I was surprised to see them reference the brain's neural network and subconscious as an unequivocally "you", since I thought this documentary was supposed to undermine our assertion that the brain is "you" whether or not one accepts the philosophical and religious concept of self.
 
Cypress said:
Hard to say why anyone would think that program was super trippy and flabbergasting.

PBS Nova productions appeal to the interested layperson, but this was I nothing I haven't heard before. I imagine as a psychology graduate you were even more underwhelmed than me.
Click to expand...

I'm genuinely fascinated that you aren't weirded out by the concept that our actions may be largely "unconscious" but that out brain creates a post hoc justification which leads us to believe that we have "free will".

I know this is still a "TBD" type hypothesis based on the MRI data but it seems truly weird to me that our sense of "free will" may actually be something that is pure illusion and created by our brains AFTER we take action.
 
Cypress said:
I also noticed the program's reference to agency, which is a quasi-Christian theme.

I was surprised to see them reference the brain's neural network and subconscious as an unequivocally "you", since I thought this documentary was supposed to undermine our assertion that the brain is "you" whether or not one accepts the philosophical and religious concept of self.
Click to expand...

Agreed on agency and Christianity.

Also agreed that I don't see how the episode supports the Perry/Mode POV that they are not responsible for their actions and thoughts.
 
Cypress said:
I also noticed the program's reference to agency, which is a quasi-Christian theme.

I was surprised to see them reference the brain's neural network and subconscious as an unequivocally "you", since I thought this documentary was supposed to undermine our assertion that the brain is "you" whether or not one accepts the philosophical and religious concept of self.
Click to expand...

The documentary isn't supposed to do anything in particular, just explain what the SCIENCE shows and the science seems to be showing the "self" as an emergent property of the neural network. The most shocking thing to me is the idea that "free will" may be an illusion of post hoc processing of stimuli. That, indeed, YOU are not making some decisions consciously but your brain convinces you after the fact that you DID.

That is strange to me.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed on agency and Christianity.

Also agreed that I don't see how the episode supports the Perry/Mode POV that they are not responsible for their actions and thoughts.
Click to expand...

Maybe Perry aka Jank didn't actually watch it, it was just one of things he stumbled across while frantically googling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top