Fact-opinion differentiation

Nordberg said:
Weiners wife was one of Hillary's closest confidants and worked for her. She had the info in her job.
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Correct. The problem wasn't that Abedin had access to classified material but that the material was sent 1) via an unsecure private server and 2) accessible on an unsecure computer by those without a need-to-know. IE Weiner.

Worse was the cover up. While Hillary was smart in many ways, she was either very stupid about computers or she was arrogant to believe deleting incriminating emails off her server deleted them off all the laptops of her staff and Russian hackers.
 
goat said:
Facts are whatever one wants them to be. Covid is the latest example. I still see people wearing a mask.
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I'm sure ignorant shitheads like you find that a problem. Some may be suffering from symptoms of a cold and simply not want to pass it on to someone else, why the fuck do you have a problem with that?
 
goat said:
Facts are whatever one wants them to be. Covid is the latest example. I still see people wearing a mask.
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^^^
Claimed to have a master's degree but doesn't understand some people have autoimmune diseases and must take extra precautions to avoid becoming sick....especially in a society of MAGAts who wipe their ass and pick their noses with the same hand without washing.

https://creakyjoints.org/living-wit...romised-people-will-still-wear-masks-indoors/
90% of Immunocompromised People Will Continue to Wear Masks Indoors
Many immunocompromised people don’t feel comfortable taking their masks off indoors unless they’re with loved ones
As part of the poll, patients were asked if they would continue to wear a mask for various situations if masks are no longer required. Of the situations presented, three took place indoors.

When asked if they would continue to wear masks in indoor public spaces:

90.6% said yes
8.9% said no
Less than 1% said they’ve never worn a mask for this scenario
When asked if they would continue to wear masks at indoor events:

90.1% said yes
9.2% said no
Less than 1% said they’ve never worn a mask for this scenario
 
Doc Dutch said:
Correct. The problem wasn't that Abedin had access to classified material but that the material was sent 1) via an unsecure private server and 2) accessible on an unsecure computer by those without a need-to-know. IE Weiner.

Worse was the cover up. While Hillary was smart in many ways, she was either very stupid about computers or she was arrogant to believe deleting incriminating emails off her server deleted them off all the laptops of her staff and Russian hackers.
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Practically all classified info is only classified for a certain amount of time, before long most of it becomes common knowledge to anyone who cares to look. Because some of what had been classified on Hillarys server was originally classified does not mean it was classified years later.
 
Port Tack said:
Practically all classified info is only classified for a certain amount of time, before long most of it becomes common knowledge to anyone who cares to look. Because some of what had been classified on Hillarys server was originally classified does not mean it was classified years later.
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No doubt Trump will use that defense at his trial. :thup:

With the addition, that he was President and Hillary was only a Secretary of State. LOL
 
Doc Dutch said:
No doubt Trump will use that defense at his trial. :thup:

With the addition, that he was President and Hillary was only a Secretary of State. LOL
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Except trump took hundreds if not thousands of classified materials that were brand spanking new and very much classified while what Hillary had was years old and meaningless. I'm sure you are right though.
 
Port Tack said:
Except trump took hundreds if not thousands of classified materials that were brand spanking new and very much classified while what Hillary had was years old and meaningless. I'm sure you are right though.
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"Penetration, no matter how slight, constitutes the act".

One or a thousand is still a crime. Sentencing is based upon the severity of the crime. Hillary deserved to be censured, but since she was the nominee, she got a pass. It's for that reason that I believe the Tit-for-Tat MAGAts gave Trump a pass for an even more severe violation.

When we start letting politicians live above the law, then it's a slippery slope. IMO, a direct line can be drawn from Bill Clinton's lies (e.g. "I didn't inhale", "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.") to Hillary's classified material mishandling to the even greater offenses by Donald J. Trump.

Not a lawyer, but I understand the concept of precedent; if you let one person get away with an offense, it makes it more difficult to prosecute someone for committing the same offense even if it is more severe. We should hold our elected and appointed leaders to a higher standard.
 
Doc Dutch said:
"Penetration, no matter how slight, constitutes the act".

One or a thousand is still a crime. Sentencing is based upon the severity of the crime. Hillary deserved to be censured, but since she was the nominee, she got a pass. It's for that reason that I believe the Tit-for-Tat MAGAts gave Trump a pass for an even more severe violation.

When we start letting politicians live above the law, then it's a slippery slope. IMO, a direct line can be drawn from Bill Clinton's lies (e.g. "I didn't inhale", "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.") to Hillary's classified material mishandling to the even greater offenses by Donald J. Trump.

Not a lawyer, but I understand the concept of precedent; if you let one person get away with an offense, it makes it more difficult to prosecute someone for committing the same offense even if it is more severe. We should hold our elected and appointed leaders to a higher standard.
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The SOS's before Hillary (Powell and Rice) both said they used private servers. Powell said he used AOL for christs sakes. Hillary at least went to great lengths to keep hers secure. There is also a big difference between something "confidential" and the fucking nuclear codes.
 
Port Tack said:
The SOS's before Hillary (Powell and Rice) both said they used private servers. Powell said he used AOL for christs sakes. Hillary at least went to great lengths to keep hers secure.

There is also a big difference between something "confidential" and the fucking nuclear codes.
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Using a private server is one thing. Passing classified material over it is another. Are you saying Powell passed classified material on AOL?

Yes, there is, but both are covered by classified material handling rules. I was a career military officer and very familiar with the rules on classified material. Getting back to politics; just because "everyone is doing it" is not an excuse.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Using a private server is one thing. Passing classified material over it is another. Are you saying Powell passed classified material on AOL?

Yes, there is, but both are covered by classified material handling rules. I was a career military officer and very familiar with the rules on classified material. Getting back to politics; just because "everyone is doing it" is not an excuse.
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He did and so did Rice, most of the info Hillary passed was classified after the fact, a fact you continue to ignore.

“ After a years-long FBI investigation, it was determined that Clinton's server did not contain any information or emails that were clearly marked classified.[SUP][1][/SUP] Federal agencies did, however, retrospectively determine that 100 emails contained information that should have been deemed classified at the time they were sent, including 65 emails deemed "Secret" and 22 deemed "Top Secret". An additional 2,093 emails were retroactively designated confidential by the State Department.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

[/SUP]
 
Doc Dutch said:
Using a private server is one thing. Passing classified material over it is another. Are you saying Powell passed classified material on AOL?

Yes, there is, but both are covered by classified material handling rules. I was a career military officer and very familiar with the rules on classified material. Getting back to politics; just because "everyone is doing it" is not an excuse.
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It is extremely difficult to think someone who is in contact with sensitive information may at some point have some in their possession. When confronted about it they understand and have no qualms returning it is one thing, when they fucking take thousands of them and lie and try and hide them and refuse to return them you have a crime that needs to be prosecuted. Nothing Biden or Pence had were anything of the magnitude of what Trump deliberatly stole and refused to return. If Trump had said "oops, sorry, didn't mean to take something I should not have feel free to come and search anything you want" he never would have been prosecuted for anything. The fucking ignorant Trump Nazi has no ability to see the difference. Just like the ignorant Trump Nazi says as long as the banks say that Trumps fraud did not cost them anything he has the right to break every fucking law concerning filing fraudulent financial documents.
 
Port Tack said:
It is extremely difficult to think someone who is in contact with sensitive information may at some point have some in their possession. When confronted about it they understand and have no qualms returning it is one thing, when they fucking take thousands of them and lie and try and hide them and refuse to return them you have a crime that needs to be prosecuted. Nothing Biden or Pence had were anything of the magnitude of what Trump deliberatly stole and refused to return. If Trump had said "oops, sorry, didn't mean to take something I should not have feel free to come and search anything you want" he never would have been prosecuted for anything. The fucking ignorant Trump Nazi has no ability to see the difference. Just like the ignorant Trump Nazi says as long as the banks say that Trumps fraud did not cost them anything he has the right to break every fucking law concerning filing fraudulent financial documents.
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No disagreement there. Trump is being prosecuted for failing to cooperate. Still, as you noted with Pence and Biden, our elected officials are too slack in their handling of classified material. If they pulled that shit in the military, they'd be punished be it NJP or a court-martial. If a military person did what Trump did, it certainly be a court-martial, conviction and Dishonorable Discharge.

I hope these incidents results in tighter rules for our elected leaders regarding classified material because right now it's a sieve with the Russians, North Koreans, Iran and other hostile nations anxious to collect what's leaking through.
 
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