Michigan: Right to Work defeats Right to Pork

Rune said:
Again, we? Do you post for multiple people? Are you simply too ignorant to understand the definition of we, or are you just so freaking arrogant as to assume you correctly speak for others as well?

FYI, you couldn't possibly be more incorrect in your comparison.
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Butt out cupcake, she will not give you any no matter how many times you defend her honor.
 
apple0154 said:
I'm sure ObamaCare is the main reason Repubs have taken this election so hard. They know any hope of stopping it is over.
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You are right, because now everyone else that had coverage (85%) is in danger of losing it.

Many like me saw the largest increase in premiums over the last 5 years combined when Obama decided 26 year old adults needed to be taken care of by their parents creating a new poverty class.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
do you assume in your argument that wages are magically going to drop the moment Michigan passes its right to work law?.........
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Given your claim that businesses are clammoring to move operations to these states, what do you think wages will start at when they open their doors?
 
Althea said:
Given your claim that businesses are clammoring to move operations to these states, what do you think wages will start at when they open their doors?
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Many non union tire plants pay at least as much, sometimes more because overall cost is reduced in scrap and downtime.
 
Rocketman said:
Many non union tire plants pay at least as much, sometimes more because overall cost is reduced in scrap and downtime.
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I wasn't aware that there are "many" of any type of tire plants here anymore?

Do you have comps from RTW states vs. non? And yes, right now, while unions cling to life, the wages will be close. Not so as the unions eventually fade into the sunset.
 
Bijou said:
Of course I don't want the righties to go away. This forum is for entertainment. I don't discuss anything with righties and expect to come away better informed, because it won't happen here. If I choose to engage any of them, it's for fun and laughs.
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So if those with differing opinions are just to be ridiculed by members such as yourself, when they bother, why stay? Yep, pretty much the same place.

In any case, for now I'll thank you for the honest response and reply to your posts or not.
 
Althea said:
I wasn't aware that there are "many" of any type of tire plants here anymore?

Do you have comps from RTW states vs. non? And yes, right now, while unions cling to life, the wages will be close. Not so as the unions eventually fade into the sunset.
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Goodyear has plants in AL, VA, NY, IA, and OK with that location being non union. It produces better quality, less scrap, and will be here long after the others are gone. Goodyear has closed at least 4 plants the last 10 years all union.

Continental Tire has only one non union plant left in IL I think.
 
007 said:
Bullshit.
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Not for nothing but a lot of those Right To Work states have some of the highest percentage rates of welfare recipients or rather they take more Federal entitlement monies than those Union state economies...as well as teen pregnancy rates are higher and they've got a proclivity for having higher high school drop out rates.

Yes they've got lower unemployment rates and they've got a lower cost of living (the dollar has more purchasing power, et cetera) but the poverty rates are higher and the workplace fatalities and injuries are also more prevalent although I digress, it's not that Right to Work states have more or less health insurance it's that the health insurance they do have is sub standard to the point it's just not worth it (which has changed or will be changing with the Affordable Care Act, so it's really not that much of a difference either way).

Either way, Michigan is still home to the UAW, any new auto manufacturing companies or plants moving in will still have to deal with them...in the end not much will change the way business has been done in that state. I would've thought Michigan legislators might've leaned towards employee at will laws instead but then I noticed the lobbyists behind Michigan's recent RTW legislation were ALEC lobbyists...a charade, window dressing, a sham...same shit different day nonsense, not that the unions are any better or worse mind you, there are pros and cons to both RTW and Union State Economies, the trick is to find a happy medium or neutral ground that works for that particular state, region, or local area. If a region or local area is inundated with Chick Fil A homophobic uber Christian fundamentalist right wing neocon teabagger types then by all means, legislate Right to Work laws on their behalf, if the opposite is true, that if a region or local area is chock full of hippies or commie teamsters then let have at it, if collective bargaining and groupthink works for them I don't see what the big deal is, that's their thing.

I foresee a need for both Right to Work states and Union State Economies in the near future anyways so it's a benefit more than it is a disadvantage.
 
Rocketman said:
You are right, because now everyone else that had coverage (85%) is in danger of losing it.

Many like me saw the largest increase in premiums over the last 5 years combined when Obama decided 26 year old adults needed to be taken care of by their parents creating a new poverty class.
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And what if those 20-somethings are in college or grad school, and don't have the money for insurance?

I'd like to see some evidence that's the reason premiums rose, if indeed they rose and you're not just being overly dramatic.
 
Rocketman said:
Goodyear has plants in AL, VA, NY, IA, and OK with that location being non union. It produces better quality, less scrap, and will be here long after the others are gone. Goodyear has closed at least 4 plants the last 10 years all union.

Continental Tire has only one non union plant left in IL I think.
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As fast as Goodyear has been closing down plants in the US they've been opening them up in China...because Goodyear, like most multinational corporations - loves the fact that they can pay shit wages for the same jobs with even less benefits.

Ask your RINO Mormon wannabe BFF about the details...
 
Annie said:
So if those with differing opinions are just to be ridiculed by members such as yourself, when they bother, why stay? Yep, pretty much the same place.

In any case, for now I'll thank you for the honest response and reply to your posts or not.
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You're not obligated to stay. I stay for the entertainment value here. I hate to inform you, but I've been on many forums and have met less than one hand's worth of reasonably well-informed right-leaners worthy of a decent discussion. The vast majority are talking-point-screeching imbeciles which, while funny for a few minutes, dumb down discussions and prohibit any meaningful exchanges of ideas. That's been my experience. I don't waste any time in futile attempts at a mutually-enlightening discussion with such types. Furthermore, they all parrot the same horseshit and every catchphrase is easily traced to one of their stupid pundits. Yawn. But sometimes it's funny, and the meltdowns are hilarious. That's what these forums are for: Entertainment.
 
Zombie Jesus said:
As fast as Goodyear has been closing down plants in the US they've been opening them up in China...because Goodyear, like most multinational corporations - loves the fact that they can pay shit wages for the same jobs with even less benefits.

Ask your RINO Mormon wannabe BFF about the details...
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As usual, rocket dick is just plain wrong.
 
cawacko said:
I wasn't talking about just health care but since you are I'll address the topic. In all seriousness I do not believe in the logic behind Obamacare and think it is going to make our health care system even worse. To start with our healthcare system (pre Obamacare) was just riddled with crony capitalism. Healthcare should have free prices and normal competition based on price and service. That has largely been eliminated. Now the government wants to step in and while claiming "competition" basically select a couple of companies that will give set plans to people on a national basis. That is not competition and the end result is going to be a lowering of care and a lowering of services for all except the rich who will be able to afford it on the side.

Maybe that is considered "compassionate" to some but it isn't in my book.
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We have to remember ObamaCare is just a start. Compared to a full government plan it's sorely lacking. But don't forget what they had to work with. Just the idea of government stepping in and helping the people was sacrilege to the Repubs and that's in no way an exaggeration. DeMint said exactly that when he said, "The more people depend on government, the less they depend on God." Those were the people Obama had to get past in order to get any kind of health plan on the table. The fact he got anything resembling ObamaCare is a triumph.

Now that ObamaCare is part of the social system abuses like you mention will be noted and outed. It's not going to happen overnight. It is a huge change for people who believe money is the be-all and end-all. There are people who believed, rightfully so at the time, that a lack of money meant a lack of life. They struggled and saved and, of course, worked harder than everyone else and the lazy folks shouldn't get medical attention that they never earned. To those folks it's no different than giving food or a car or anything else. If one didn't struggle and scratch and sacrifice and pinch every penny then they no more deserved medical care than they deserved a home or food or clothes. People actually think like that! Are they jealous or angry or selfish? I don't know but I do know their opposition to the poor having medical care isn't due to their concern and compassion for them.

At the expense of repeating myself there is not one country with government medical where the citizens want it rescinded. Not one country. We may hear about one or two rare instances of corruption or neglect but if it was common place the citizens would demand action. There's not even a prominent politician in any of those countries campaigning on eliminating their government plan.

Keep in mind ObamaCare is just a start. As the government becomes more involved ObamaCare will morph into a proper government plan. But it's not an easy battle. After all, according to Obama's opponents he's trying to take God's job. And that's not hyperbole!
 
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