Onward Christian soldiers

[Cypress]

Cypress, I’m not so sure it’s that obvious for many people, even today.

Thou shalt not kill really wasn’t meant to be literal. It meant ‘don’t kill your own tribe’, but slaughtering the enemy’s tribe was fine. Apparently, that still applies.

Lying has been institutionalized by our politicians, and taken to a new level by our former president. And without a blink from his (supposed) Christian supporters.

Here we are, again, in another Mideast war directly involving two of those major religions, with the third as an accomplice, over stolen land.

So much for those religions following their roots.

Yes it seems obvious to us now.

Yes, murder, hypocrisy, and lying have never been eradicated from the human condition

I'm saying that a late Bronze Age culture in which child sacrifice and female baby disposal were lawful practices, where revenge and retributive justice were put on a pedestal, evolved as a result of the religions of the Axial Age.

The value of Human life was elevated, and revenge was deemphasized while mercy and charity were elevated in Islam, Christianity, Rabbinic Judaism.

The parable of the good Samaritan doesn't seem remarkable to us now, but it was pretty radical in the ancient world.


Mercy, charity, and universal love were not always practiced. But in principle they were elevated to a position of categorical moral and religious obligation. Murder was no longer something to be avoided as an expediency, but it was elevated to a grave moral sin that imperiled the soul.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Cypress, I’m not so sure it’s that obvious for many people, even today.

Thou shalt not kill really wasn’t meant to be literal. It meant ‘don’t kill your own tribe’, but slaughtering the enemy’s tribe was fine. Apparently, that still applies.

Lying has been institutionalized by our politicians, and taken to a new level by our former president. And without a blink from his (supposed) Christian supporters.

Here we are, again, in another Mideast war directly involving two of those major religions, with the third as an accomplice, over stolen land.

So much for those religions following their roots.

You had me until the "stolen land" comment. Israel isn't perfect, but it would be good to remember who the UN awarded the land and who has been attacking the owners of that land for the past 70 years. Why don't Egypt and Jordan want anything to do with the Palestinians if they are as virtuous as you purport?

Yes it seems obvious to us now.

Yes, murder, hypocrisy, and lying have never been eradicated from the human condition

I'm saying that a late Bronze Age culture in which child sacrifice and female baby disposal were lawful practices, where revenge and retributive justice were put on a pedestal, evolved as a result of the religions of the Axial Age.

The value of Human life was elevated, and revenge was deemphasized while mercy and charity were elevated in Islam, Christianity, Rabbinic Judaism.

The parable of the good Samaritan doesn't seem remarkable to us now, but it was pretty radical in the ancient world.


Mercy, charity, and universal love were not always practiced. But in principle they were elevated to a position of categorical moral and religious obligation. Murder was no longer something to be avoided as an expediency, but it was elevated to a grave moral sin that imperiled the soul.

Well stated and agreed.

 

[Cypress]

You had me until the "stolen land" comment. Israel isn't perfect, but it would be good to remember who the UN awarded the land and who has been attacking the owners of that land for the past 70 years. Why don't Egypt and Jordan want anything to do with the Palestinians if they are as virtuous as you purport?




Well stated and agreed.

I don't think Confucius, Jesus, Plato, the Buddha would have devoted their lives to teaching if ethics and morality were just common sense and came to us naturally.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't think Confucius, Jesus, Plato, the Buddha would have devoted their lives to teaching if ethics and morality were just common sense and came to us naturally.

Socializing people to work and play well together in a community requires some education.

The only innate common sense all animals have is survival of the fittest and might makes right plus the "fight or flight syndrome".

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That's where christ insanity diverges from Judaism,, christ insanity looks at humans as bad depraved sinners, Not so with Judaism.

Always thought that it was bordering on emotional abuse to teach your kids that they were born bad and only some invisible deity could save them. It's one thing to help your child form a conscience, and empathy for others, by pointing out that hitting your brother or taking your friend's toy is poor behavior. It's quite another to tell them that they're bad from the git-go.

 

[Cypress]

Socializing people to work and play well together in a community requires some education.

The only innate common sense all animals have is survival of the fittest and might makes right plus the "fight or flight syndrome".

Aristotle and Confucious had a good insight that just education and knowledge in itself isn't sufficient. Virtue has to be cultivated, practiced and perfected relentlessly in everyday life, until it becomes second nature. That usually is a lifetime project.

 

[Cypress]

Always thought that it was bordering on emotional abuse to teach your kids that they were born bad and only some invisible deity could save them. It's one thing to help your child form a conscience, and empathy for others, by pointing out that hitting your brother or taking your friend's toy is poor behavior. It's quite another to tell them that they're bad from the git-go.

The concept that all humans are personally tainted by original sin seems to be a Protestant belief, that comes to us from Augustine and Calvin. In Eastern Orthodox Christianity, I don't think it is correct theology to say that all humans are personally tainted by original sin.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The concept that all humans are personally tainted by original sin seems to be a Protestant belief, that comes to us from Augustine and Calvin. In Eastern Orthodox Christianity, I don't think it is correct theology to say that all humans are personally tainted by original sin.

It's actually intrinsic to Catholicism as well.

Original Sin is part of the human condition by which we are conceived in a fallen state, i.e., without sanctifying grace. It is our inheritance resulting from the sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve.

God created man and woman in a state of holiness and justice and in complete friendship with him. God also gave them freedom to choose good or evil, warning them that evil brings dire consequences. By choosing to sin, Adam and Eve preferred their own desires over God, distrusting him and ultimately going against their own good. This Original Sin deprived them of the original justice and holiness they had enjoyed. (Cf. CCC 398)

Their transgression had consequences for all humanity—including suffering, death and a loss of God's friendship. Original Sin infects each person at conception, rendering us vulnerable to sin by clouding our judgment and weakening our will. As a result, we are inclined toward disordered appetites, enslaved to our passions, and in need of God's grace to combat evil. The Sacrament of Baptism forgives the guilt associated with our actual sins as well as Original Sin, but our tendency toward sin, or concupiscence, remains.

The only human person exempted by God from this affliction is the Blessed Virgin Mary; Jesus Christ, himself a divine Person, was not conceived according to human generation, i.e., has no biological human father.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Aristotle and Confucious had a good insight that just education and knowledge in itself isn't sufficient. Virtue has to be cultivated, practiced and perfected relentlessly in everyday life, until it becomes second nature. That usually is a lifetime project.

The behavioral science term is "conditioning". The layperson word is "indoctrination".

Also note that, depending upon the quality of the conditioning and the innate abilities of the individual, the results won't always be the same. Some are better than others, some are simply defective.

 

[Cypress]

It's actually intrinsic to Catholicism as well.

Yes, I think being in a fallen state is standard Christian theology. I think the question is whether we personally are tainted by and responsive for the original sin.

I think it makes sense that humans are imperfect and prone to sin, unless we proactively act to cultivate our better natures.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The concept that all humans are personally tainted by original sin seems to be a Protestant belief, that comes to us from Augustine and Calvin. In Eastern Orthodox Christianity, I don't think it is correct theology to say that all humans are personally tainted by original sin.

Being raised Protestant, I've heard of Original Sin but never bought into it since it's illogical.

If God is all knowing then God knew what would happen with Adam and Eve. IMO, it was planned that way.

The Tree of Knowledge story is an origin story of how mankind became different from the animals. Before eating from it, Adam and Eve were just as unaware as the animals; eating, sleeping and fucking was their entire life. Ergo, the supposed sin was to become self-aware and possess Free Will.

Eve, the Mother of Mankind, is the hero of the story.

An alternative view:

God created the Garden and in the middle put the Tree of Knowledge. Then he created all the animals to live in the Garden along with humans. God let the humans have dominion over the Garden but warned that the Tree of Knowledge would make them forever unhappy if they ate from it since it would make them self-aware and overly curious.

Adam was a bit of a dumbass and meekly complied, but Eve was a take-charge kinda gal and was already curious. Eventually she was curious enough to taste from the Tree of Knowledge. Awareness flooded through her like a wave. It both saddened her and gladdened her. Wanting to share this with Adam, she offered him a taste too. Adam, being a bit of a dumbass, would eat anything Eve gave. He, too, became self-aware.

God didn't throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden, they left like fledgling birds leaving a nest. God smiled.

 

[Cypress]

The behavioral science term is "conditioning". The layperson word is "indoctrination".

Also note that, depending upon the quality of the conditioning and the innate abilities of the individual, the results won't always be the same. Some are better than others, some are simply defective.

I can't see Trump ever being taught or convinced to act selflessly and ethically.

 

[Cypress]

Being raised Protestant, I've heard of Original Sin but never bought into it since it's illogical.

If God is all knowing then God knew what would happen with Adam and Eve. IMO, it was planned that way.

The Tree of Knowledge story is an origin story of how mankind became different from the animals. Before eating from it, Adam and Eve were just as unaware as the animals; eating, sleeping and fucking was their entire life. Ergo, the supposed sin was to become self-aware and possess Free Will.

Eve, the Mother of Mankind, is the hero of the story.

An alternative view:

God created the Garden and in the middle put the Tree of Knowledge. Then he created all the animals to live in the Garden along with humans. God let the humans have dominion over the Garden but warned that the Tree of Knowledge would make them forever unhappy if they ate from it since it would make them self-aware and overly curious.

Adam was a bit of a dumbass and meekly complied, but Eve was a take-charge kinda gal and was already curious. Eventually she was curious enough to taste from the Tree of Knowledge. Awareness flooded through her like a wave. It both saddened her and gladdened her. Wanting to share this with Adam, she offered him a taste too. Adam, being a bit of a dumbass, would eat anything Eve gave. He, too, became self-aware.

God didn't throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden, they left like fledgling birds leaving a nest. God smiled.

Eve got a bad rap!

I heard a Jewish religious scholar say that the Hebrews were great story tellers. That's why their are so many great stories in the Old Testament that are to fantastical to be believed to be historical. Job is a poem that is supposed to be based on an old Israelite folk tale. They're supposed to be stories with a lesson, they weren't written for the Xtan fundies to take strictly literally.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Eve got a bad rap!

I heard a Jewish religious scholar say that the Hebrews were great story tellers. That's why their are so many great stories in the Old Testament that are to fantastical to be believed to be historical. Job is a poem that is supposed to be based on an old Israelite folk tale. They're supposed to be stories with a lesson, they weren't written for the Xtan fundies to take strictly literally.

So Lucifer was actually the good guy in the story?

Since he got Eve to eat the Apple?

Bad is good, good is bad - leftist mantra.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

What do you do with people who refuse to obey the golden rule?

Forgiveness only goes so far when it comes to survival and keeping your loved ones safe.

That is a huge question! I wish I had the answer! Because obviously there will always be the ASSHOLE that comes along and never uses the Golden Rule, and basically just takes advantage of those who do!

But let me tell you specifically what we should not do- WE SHOULD NOT ELECT THEM TO BE OUR PRESIDENT!

BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS THE EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER- NEVER practiced the Golden Rule, and just takes advantage of others who do use the golden rule!

Donald Trump is the best example of one of the worst human beings that ever lived!

And MOTHER FUCKERS like you vote for this ASSHOLE to be our president!

That is why I do not like people like you dude!

This is why I will never trust a Republican again- BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOTALLY GONE MALEVOLENT, CRIMINAL, AND CORRUPTED!

 

[Bigdog]

That is a huge question! I wish I had the answer! Because obviously there will always be the ASSHOLE that comes along and never uses the Golden Rule, and basically just takes advantage of those who do!

What foreign or domestic policies of Pres. Trump did you disagree with?

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

That's where christ insanity diverges from Judaism,, christ insanity looks at humans as bad depraved sinners, Not so with Judaism.

Yes, I agree with your assessment of JUDAISM.

Look, I am not anti-semantic- and I am not even anti-religion. But I can still criticize all religions equally, and THE JEWS certainly do not get a pass from me- with their wack-a-moley holier-than-thou beliefs!

The Christian concept of salvation from sin has no equivalent in modern Judaism. Judaism does not believe that man, by his nature, is evil or sinful and therefore does not teach that man has a need to be “saved” from an eternal damnation. In fact, most Jews today do not believe in a place of eternal punishment or a literal hell. When a Jew sins or fails to fulfill the laws of God, the belief is that he can obtain forgiveness through prayer, repentance, and doing good deeds.

For me, what blew it was the verse in the Bible about the Jews are God’s chosen people, according to Deuteronomy 7:6- “For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth".

Well, I am not a Jew, and that left me out, made me feel as this GOD everyone seems to adore, was playing favorites- AND THAT GOES AGAINST MY BELIEFS- THAT WE ARE ALL EQUALS HERE ON EARTH.

And it led me to believe that this GOD that everyone seems to adore and have such blind faith in- IS ACTUALLY RACIST AND PREJUDICED!

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

What foreign or domestic policies of Pres. Trump did you disagree with?

All of them!

Next!

 

[domer76]

You had me until the "stolen land" comment. Israel isn't perfect, but it would be good to remember who the UN awarded the land and who has been attacking the owners of that land for the past 70 years. Why don't Egypt and Jordan want anything to do with the Palestinians if they are as virtuous as you purport?




Well stated and agreed.

In the 1948 war, when Palestinians fled for their lives, their land and homes were confiscated by the Israelis.

 

[QP!]

The "Christian" right is so full of posuers like Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert, aka people who fuck underage prostitutes and grope their dates at family musicals, you have to wonder if their supposed religion is just an act of political expediency.

Organized religions are about the power and control of derps.

Lest we forget the original Popes were often warlords or elites who rejected the 'Right of Birth right' that said you had to be born into a certain family to be a King and hold power.

A lot of smart people rejected that and by being a Pope, you could build and command an army, tax citizens (thru donations), get lands and Titles, and wield immense political power.

it was created to rival the power of Kings.

A grift.