Onward Christian soldiers

I was 40 before I did. I thought it referenced a sewing needle!

That's why you can't have MAGA highschool dropouts quoting English translations of bible verses, and take it at face value.

You really need scholars trained in Greek and Hebrew, trained ancient history, and trained in literary exegesis to really appreciate the depth and meaning of religious literature.
 
I didn't know it referred to an actual landmark!

It's a physical landmark, but didn't exist at the time of Jesus according to the link below. Regardless, it was fun to read about it. As the link alludes, after two thousand years of dirt, the streets of Jerusalem have been raised up several feet. Up to 12 feet, IIRC, which is why, during my wife's and my tour of Jerusalem, marking the Stations of the Cross seemed more fanciful than factual since they were all at normal levels, not in holes.

https://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-ar...-eye-of-the-needle-matthew-1923-24-mark-1025/
There is a gate in Jerusalem called the “eye of the needle”, through which a camel could not pass unless it stooped down and had all its baggage first removed. After dark, when the main gates were closed, travelers and merchants would have to use this smaller gate. Great sermon material, with illustrations about how we must humble ourselves and remove our baggage before entering the kingdom.

It would be quite convenient if this myth were true because it would legitimize people’s affinity for money and probably the prosperity gospel as well. If the passage is about baggage and humility and not actually about wealth then the prosperity preachers can breathe a big sigh of reliefr However, this myth has been propagated since the 11th century and it is completely made up. There is zero evidence to show that this gate ever existed other than stories brought back from Jerusalem tours.

But what about the image to the left showing the eye of the needle? This wall passage did not exist when Jesus walked the earth, or anytime close to his generation. This wall was built hundreds of years after Jesus’ time. The gates of Jerusalem were destroyed in 70CE and later rebuilt. Josephus, the 1st century Jewish historian, wrote about the wall in Jerusalem (excepting the western wall):

“All the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited.”
eye-of-the-needle-257x300.jpg

So the image above would not exist in Jesus’ time.
 
It's a physical landmark, but didn't exist at the time of Jesus according to the link below. Regardless, it was fun to read about it. As the link alludes, after two thousand years of dirt, the streets of Jerusalem have been raised up several feet. Up to 12 feet, IIRC, which is why, during my wife's and my tour of Jerusalem, marking the Stations of the Cross seemed more fanciful than factual since they were all at normal levels, not in holes.

https://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-ar...-eye-of-the-needle-matthew-1923-24-mark-1025/

That's so cool that you got to visit there!
 
It's a physical landmark, but didn't exist at the time of Jesus according to the link below. Regardless, it was fun to read about it. As the link alludes, after two thousand years of dirt, the streets of Jerusalem have been raised up several feet. Up to 12 feet, IIRC, which is why, during my wife's and my tour of Jerusalem, marking the Stations of the Cross seemed more fanciful than factual since they were all at normal levels, not in holes.

https://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-ar...-eye-of-the-needle-matthew-1923-24-mark-1025/
Which proves the Gospel writers were not contemporaries of Jesus and wrote the Gospels at a later time. They invented the words of Jesus for their audiences.
 
Which proves the Gospel writers were not contemporaries of Jesus and wrote the Gospels at a later time. They invented the words of Jesus for their audiences.

Since all were written decades later, I have no doubt there was some embellishment. That said, I think many of the Jesus parables ring true. The fact this particular parable exists in three different Gospels tells me Jesus said it even if the quote isn't verbatim.

FWIW, I have no problem with the Gospels. It's how people interpret them that sometimes bothers me. Same goes for all the books after the four Gospels. Lots of spin there.

“Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)

“it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25)

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:23-14)
 
That's so cool that you got to visit there!

My wife is strongly Christian and walks the walk so I was happy to help her fulfill a dream of touring Israel. Mainly the Jesus path. I'd been before, but due to the Intifada didn't go to Jerusalem. Instead, I went to the Dead Sea and Masada...much cooler IMO because of the military aspects. :D

Still, I enjoyed taking my wife to Nazareth, Jerusalem and Bethlehem. A highlight was her being baptized in the Jordan River.* I didn't get baptized out of fear for the water starting to boil. LOL



*the modern site is not the supposed site of where John the Baptist baptized Jesus since that's in Jordan, IIRC.
 
My wife is strongly Christian and walks the walk so I was happy to help her fulfill a dream of touring Israel. Mainly the Jesus path. I'd been before, but due to the Intifada didn't go to Jerusalem. Instead, I went to the Dead Sea and Masada...much cooler IMO because of the military aspects. :D

Still, I enjoyed taking my wife to Nazareth, Jerusalem and Bethlehem. A highlight was her being baptized in the Jordan River.* I didn't get baptized out of fear for the water starting to boil. LOL



*the modern site is not the supposed site of where John the Baptist baptized Jesus since that's in Jordan, IIRC.
Holy water burns!! :burn:

Lots of history there.

Did you go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre?
 
Holy water burns!! :burn:

Lots of history there.

Did you go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre?

Yes. There was a long line since it's in the basement (the whole thing about 2000 years of dirt building up around it). Due to time, our tour group elected to send a few and then share the pictures. My wife was one of the lucky few...with my urging. LOL I stayed on the surface and chatted with others. I'll look for some pictures.
 
yeah that interpretation is fucked in the head stupid.

and you're dumber than a shitstick.

the biggest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

all kingdoms being endorsed by god is a noahide idiot concept.

what did the devil offer jesus in his temptation in the dessert?

Kingdoms.

So it's established that you submitted to authority of the Church fathers without even realizing you did -- and in spite of your protests that you think for yourself.

fuck the church fathers!

The creation of the New Testament canon itself, and the concept of immaterial souls that are whisked away to a transcendant spiritual never-land above come straight from the Church Fathers, not from the New Testament gospel.
 
So it's established that you submitted to authority of the Church fathers without even realizing you did -- and in spite of your protests that you think for yourself.



The creation of the New Testament canon itself, and the concept of immaterial souls that are whisked away to a transcendant spiritual never-land above come straight from the Church Fathers, not from the New Testament gospel.

Thanks for your efforts, but Fredo is an irrational person and cannot be reasoned with.
 
Since all were written decades later, I have no doubt there was some embellishment. That said, I think many of the Jesus parables ring true. The fact this particular parable exists in three different Gospels tells me Jesus said it even if the quote isn't verbatim.

FWIW, I have no problem with the Gospels. It's how people interpret them that sometimes bothers me. Same goes for all the books after the four Gospels. Lots of spin there.

“Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)

“it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25)

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:23-14)
You do know the Gospel writers used similar sources for reference when writing their material. John Dominic Crossan writes some of the best books on the subject. Matthew and Luke borrowed from Mark and then there is also the Q source.
 
There are thousands of Christian denominations because there are disagreements on meanings and priorities.

The Bible was written for the masses, the scholars, and everyone in between. Each will get what they need from it, or not.

Scholars may delve into the history and original Hebrew. For instance, Barabbas means "son of the father", and the "king of the Jews" at the time was Caesar. Or they can study the Apocryphal texts or the commonalities among other religions.

Christ teaches us to forgive. And the hardest thing to do is to forgive ourselves.

You're the one who didn't know Baptists are Protestants, so you should sit out and disqualify yourself from threads on religion.
 
You do know the Gospel writers used similar sources for reference when writing their material. John Dominic Crossan writes some of the best books on the subject. Matthew and Luke borrowed from Mark and then there is also the Q source.
Yes on sources. I'll refresh my memory on "the Q source".

Since all were written decades after Jesus, and not by the actual witnesses, it's logical that the authors based the Gospels off scraps of previous documents and testimony...or campfire stories like Moses did the first five books of the Bible.

FWIW, Story Tellers AKA keepers of verbal history, as a tribal position are known throughout all human cultures.

https://magazine.wfu.edu/2018/03/28/lessons-from-the-greeks-and-romans-2/
What Made Ancient Greeks Special? Storytelling
Greeks contributed to history with advances in narrative


https://www.momentslog.com/culture/...rytellers-oral-traditions-and-history-keepers
The Cultural Significance Of African Griots: Storytellers, Oral Traditions, And History Keepers

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/storytelling-and-cultural-traditions/
Storytelling and Cultural Traditions
Storytelling is as old as culture. Many societies have long-established storytelling traditions. The stories, and performances thereof, function to entertain as well as educate.

Storytelling is universal and is as ancient as humankind. Before there was writing, there was storytelling. It occurs in every culture and from every age. It exists (and existed) to entertain, to inform, and to promulgate cultural traditions and values.

Oral storytelling is telling a story through voice and gestures. The oral tradition can take many forms, including epic poems, chants, rhymes, songs, and more. Not all of these stories are historically accurate or even true. Truth is less important than providing cultural cohesion. It can encompass myths, legends, fables, religion, prayers, proverbs, and instructions.

Here are some examples of storytelling as a method of passing down cultural traditions.....
 
I'd like to visit the Ark Experience just so I can see what Republicans call science.

I have. It’s not that far from where I live. All I can tell you is I kept my thoughts to myself but did a great deal of chuckling. I was complimented several times for the big grin on my face for enjoying my visit. I just said thanks and that I had.

My wife, a pretty conservative Catholic thought it one of the oddest things she’s seen in her life. She also felt very the people there were uncomfortably weird. That they were.
 
You're the one who didn't know Baptists are Protestants, so you should sit out and disqualify yourself from threads on religion.

Bigdog is the classic lip-service Christian like his online friend LibHater. They wear the mask and then do whatever they like....which is almost always contrary to Christian beliefs.
 
I think you're right.

We like to learn about history. I know you are very well read on history.

Learning about history isn't just memorizing the names and dates of kings. A true curioisity about history is the panoply of political history, intellectual history, religious history, and cultural history.

How much smoke can a lib blow up his own asshole?
 
Since all were written decades later, I have no doubt there was some embellishment. That said, I think many of the Jesus parables ring true. The fact this particular parable exists in three different Gospels tells me Jesus said it even if the quote isn't verbatim.
...

To be a successful Standup comedian you create a routine... and retell it often, each time refining it slightly more, based on audience feedback until you get a winner. You copy yourself.

There is similar craft in other Story Telling, but they are often copying others. For instance are you familiar with this I will put in the spoilers?

james_cameron_avatar1.png

Not only is there embellishment in most religious text studies, there is clear theft and refinement of other cultures parables and stories.

So while Jesus, Mary, Noah, etc were all people, their story were largely stolen from past cultures religious texts, as a work in progress in the same way a comedian builds his material.

Each successive religion who would steal much of the material would refine it as bit more ...get a bit more traction... and so on and so on. And eventually you have a hit that spawns a new major religion.


The only counter to these truths are to say it is all just some vast coincidence how closely these stories align, not just once, but over and over in different cultures.


Organized religion is BS for derps. It is a way to grift money and power. That does not mean every person or intention is bad but people need to understand it is a con FIRSt.
 
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