Pondering Palin

"No outrage over his attacks on civil liberties? "

It's funny; I never was able to muster outrage for this one, under Bush or Obama. I know this probably stems from the fact that it doesn't really affect me or anyone I know; maybe it's something I should be outraged about, but I just can't muster it. I don't see a slippery slope, and America, to me, is still an unbelievably free country; I almost feel like complaining about it does a disservice to countries that truly are oppressed, but I respect others' concern for this issue.

I have only so much outrage to go around, and there are definitely issues that cause it in me: pre-emptive invasions & uses of our military that are careless or in support of a dishonest agenda; the casual disregard for ravaging our environment & slow erosion of protections we have seen over of the years; the floundering state of our educational system; corporate abuse & effect of greed on the average worker, as well as the growing disparity between the haves & have nots; health insurance quotas & other abuses in the health industry.

These things truly bother me.
 
Southern Man said:
In Adam's post I responded to he doesn't say who supports Palin, but if he thinks true conservatives support her, then he is right. *shrug*
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From Post 31 of this thread.

Adam sayeth quite astutely:
Unfortunately, she is doing just the opposite. She is rehashing excitement among the same old tired base, who are still deluded about why they really continue to lose. She not only fails to expand the base, she closes off the base from expanding because a lot of other people just can't believe that Conservatives are convinced that this is the best they've got.
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Onceler said:
"No outrage over his attacks on civil liberties? "

It's funny; I never was able to muster outrage for this one, under Bush or Obama. I know this probably stems from the fact that it doesn't really affect me or anyone I know; maybe it's something I should be outraged about, but I just can't muster it. I don't see a slippery slope, and America, to me, is still an unbelievably free country; I almost feel like complaining about it does a disservice to countries that truly are oppressed, but I respect others' concern for this issue.

I have only so much outrage to go around, and there are definitely issues that cause it in me: pre-emptive invasions & uses of our military that are careless or in support of a dishonest agenda; the casual disregard for ravaging our environment & slow erosion of protections we have seen over of the years; the floundering state of our educational system; corporate abuse & effect of greed on the average worker, as well as the growing disparity between the haves & have nots; health insurance quotas & other abuses in the health industry.

These things truly bother me.
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I say this again because it's important that you understand that I meant no offense to you personally. I think I have an understanding of where you are politically and I find your political perspectives to be admirable.

However, there were many of us on the left who do care about civil liberties and who went ballistic about Bush and FISA and illegal wiretapping. We wrote songs about Cheney and his decision to keep energy policy and those he met with to decide the policy a secret. We justifiably lost our minds about needless war and its consequences.

One of the great failings of the left .. besides a lack of fighters .. is our lack of introspective.

It's great fun to beat up on the hapless right, but sometimes we need to take a long look in the mirror.

What I see coming is the same thing that happened when our last glorified centrist was the president. A return of a republican congress. They may only have idiots running for president, but they have smarter ones running for congress.
 
Socrtease said:
From Post 31 of this thread.

Adam sayeth quite astutely:
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Unfortunately, adam's advice is moronic.

The republicans move toward the internationalist fascist center is a mistake.

Republicans would be better to move to an America First, populist oriented plan, and thus gain some of the moderate democrats who still care about americans who work for a living.

Globalization is a race to the bottom. Humans slavery and totalitarianism is not a legitimate comparative advantage which should be rewarded by the civilized world.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Unfortunately, adam's advice is moronic.

The republicans move toward the internationalist fascist center is a mistake.

Republicans would be better to move to an America First, populist oriented plan, and thus gain some of the moderate democrats who still care about americans who work for a living.

Globalization is a race to the bottom. Humans slavery and totalitarianism is not a legitimate comparative advantage which should be rewarded by the civilized world.
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Your bolded comment is correct in my opinion.

That in red is a lost cause. Best figure out how to make globalization, which is inevitable, and the new configurations of the world work in our best interests.

You can remember the past, but you can't live there.
 
blackascoal said:
Your bolded comment is correct in my opinion.

That in red is a lost cause. Best figure out how to make globalization, which is inevitable, and the new configurations of the world work in our best interests.

You can remember the past, but you can't live there.
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It's not inevitable. That's just a propaganda lie. You're a brainwash victim.
 
blackascoal said:
...However, there were many of us on the left who do care about civil liberties and who went ballistic about Bush and FISA and illegal wiretapping.
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You do realize the Obama Administration is continuing the same practices, and their attorneys are arguing the same arguments. The ONLY thing that changed, is the Administration. What is astounding is how FEW of you are really concerned about this now. It's like the "stolen election" bullshit, with all the fraudulent voting machines, etc.... Obama won the election, so this somehow mysteriously 'fixed' that unbearable travesty of our freedom. Suddenly, there are NO more problems with the voting machines!


We wrote songs about Cheney and his decision to keep energy policy and those he met with to decide the policy a secret.
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And the Obama Administration takes it a step further and makes it a 'secret' who comes and goes from the White House! Forget specific meetings, we can't even know who comes-a-calling! Yet again, we hear not a peep of outrage from the otherwise outraged left... they must be busy composing songs, huh?

We justifiably lost our minds about needless war and its consequences.
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And Obama has not withdrawn from Iraq, instead, he has repeated in speech after speech, how "important the mission is" in Iraq, and how our success in Iraq is crucial in fighting the War on Terror.

One of the great failings of the left .. besides a lack of fighters .. is our lack of introspective.
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Your greatest failing is not realizing what hypocrites you are, and understanding that is how other people see you.
 
"Your greatest failing is not realizing what hypocrites you are, and understanding that is how other people see you. "

Do you think "other people" - who you seem to speak for pretty often - really see the left as the only bastion of hypocrisy?

There are hypocrites on both sides; just look in the mirror. Whenever someone tries to portray one side or the other as exclusively being the home of the double-standard, they are speaking more about themselves than anything in reality.
 
Dixie said:
You do realize the Obama Administration is continuing the same practices, and their attorneys are arguing the same arguments. The ONLY thing that changed, is the Administration. What is astounding is how FEW of you are really concerned about this now. It's like the "stolen election" bullshit, with all the fraudulent voting machines, etc.... Obama won the election, so this somehow mysteriously 'fixed' that unbearable travesty of our freedom. Suddenly, there are NO more problems with the voting machines!

And the Obama Administration takes it a step further and makes it a 'secret' who comes and goes from the White House! Forget specific meetings, we can't even know who comes-a-calling! Yet again, we hear not a peep of outrage from the otherwise outraged left... they must be busy composing songs, huh?

And Obama has not withdrawn from Iraq, instead, he has repeated in speech after speech, how "important the mission is" in Iraq, and how our success in Iraq is crucial in fighting the War on Terror.

Your greatest failing is not realizing what hypocrites you are, and understanding that is how other people see you.
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Normally I don't waste time talking to you .. but since your response was somewhat civily put, I'll be happy to respond.

Perhaps this skipped by you, but all your comments up to the bolded one reflects exactly what I said. How are you accusing me/us of hypocrisy when you're agreeing to my criticisms of my own side of the fence? Criticisms, I might add, that I have never read you have of your own side of the fence.

Even in what I bolded .. what does this sound like to you?

One of the great failings of the left .. besides a lack of fighters .. is our lack of introspective.

Thus it seems that you've parrotted my own words then use them to admonish me .. for you agreeing with me.

How does that make sense?
 
Onceler said:
"Your greatest failing is not realizing what hypocrites you are, and understanding that is how other people see you. "

Do you think "other people" - who you seem to speak for pretty often - really see the left as the only bastion of hypocrisy?

There are hypocrites on both sides; just look in the mirror. Whenever someone tries to portray one side or the other as exclusively being the home of the double-standard, they are speaking more about themselves than anything in reality.
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:lmao: This is a classic pinheaded retort! Rather than admit your party is full of absolute hypocrites, you want to point the finger at the right, and make the absurd argument that if the republicans weren't such hypocrites, the left wouldn't be either! It's like Micheal Jackson claiming he wouldn't have fondled little boys if there were more "love" in the world!
 
Dixie said:
:lmao: This is a classic pinheaded retort! Rather than admit your party is full of absolute hypocrites, you want to point the finger at the right, and make the absurd argument that if the republicans weren't such hypocrites, the left wouldn't be either! It's like Micheal Jackson claiming he wouldn't have fondled little boys if there were more "love" in the world!
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You're so brain-dead. That isn't what I'm saying, at all.

Both sides have hypocrites. America does not see the left as being the party of hypocrisy; you do. Because you're a partisan hack, who exhibits his own double-standard pretty much every time he posts.

That's what I'm saying. I'm sure you still won't get it...:clink:
 
what the hell! America doesn't see the left as the party of hypocrisy....

digging out hip boots for that one...
oh brother..how did you say that with a straight finger...sheesh
 
AssHatZombie said:
Who else is gonna do it? The whales?

funny
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In truth, "the whales" would have been a better answer than "people."

What people?

Americans?

Been to WalMart lately?

How's your efforts to stop NAFTA going?

The answer is, NOBODY is going to do it.

Thus, inevitable.

Best to figure out how to make the inevitable work for America.
 
WinterBorn said:
I agree with Adam on most points. And I think the more people who embrace parties other than the two who have made such a mess of things the better off we will be.

I vote libertarian because I agree with many of the planks of their platform and because I cannot vote for either of the two major parties.
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From a practical standpoint it's a wasted vote. Wether you like it or not were a two party system with both major parties being coalitions on many, often disparate, interest.

Libertarianism fails on two levels. It fails from a practical stand point in that Libertarians don't or rarely get elected and thus provide little or no representative value. They also fail as a governing philosophy.

The two extremes that have made the Republican party so unpopular is the uncompromising rigidigy of the religious right and the libertarian branch of the party with it's failing governing philosophy. I can only imagine how bad and inept governance would be if Libertarians were in control of the whole government or even just one branch.

If one wants to imagine what our government would be like under Libertarianism one only has to imagine the Katrina fiasco at a national level.
 
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