Reagan, that block of wood with hair, ushered in the neocons.

Threedee said:
How come they didn't get their way until this administration? A: Because they were in a minority position, with people like Scowcroft, Powell, Sheldon and the realists running the departments and their presidents agreeing with them.
Click to expand...
What was it I read?....

Oh yes....

If you insist on using facts you're just goping to spoil things.
 
gonzojournals said:
He rose to prominence during the rule of Khrushchev...which means he would have been very in line with the traditional Soviet government, because you do not gain power in a totalitarian state by being a revolutionary.

It was after he became Secretary and realised the Soviet Union could not continue with the same policies that he became "progressive".
Click to expand...


http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761552563_2/Gorbachev.html

Please read about him and realize he was a reformer all his life.

He opened Russia up like no other leader.

The only reason you want to disparage him is so you can give Ronny more creidt than he is due.
 
Desh said:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761552563_2/Gorbachev.html

Please read about him and realize he was a reformer all his life.

He opened Russia up like no other leader.

The only reason you want to disparage him is so you can give Ronny more creidt than he is due.
Click to expand...

You are just blind to the reality of Soviet politics. Reformers were not welcome-- only partisans. Actually, you would be quite comfortable in that sort of government.

It wasn't until '85 (when he became Secretary) that the reforms started.
 
In 1985 Gorbachev installed the reform-minded Eduard Shevardnadze as foreign minister and held his first summit meeting with U.S. president Ronald Reagan. In all, Gorbachev held nine summits with U.S. presidents Reagan and George Bush, and also established relationships with British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, West German chancellor Helmut Kohl, and other Western leaders. In 1987 Gorbachev called for “new thinking” in the Soviet Union regarding international relations, and in many ways he put the fresh ideas that came to the fore into effect. That year he and President Reagan signed an agreement calling for both countries’ elimination of all their land-based nuclear missiles of intermediate and shorter range. In July 1991 he and President Bush signed the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I), committing the two countries to sharp reductions in their nuclear arsenals. Gorbachev’s government withdrew all forces from Afghanistan between May 1988 and early 1989 and cut its support for revolutionary movements and anti-Western governments in Africa. In the Middle East, the Soviet government improved relations with Israel and cooperated in the American-led effort to evict Iraqi forces from Kuwait in 1991, during the Persian Gulf War.

The most far-reaching changes, however, were in Soviet policy toward the other countries of Eastern Europe, which had been under Soviet domination since the 1940s. Gorbachev warned the Communist governments in those countries that the USSR would no longer use force to keep them in power, and he encouraged the East European countries to fend for themselves economically and to embark on internal reforms. In 1989 a tide of political change washed over the region, culminating in the collapse of the Communist regime in East Germany and the opening of the Berlin Wall. In 1990 Gorbachev agreed to the reunification of Germany and the withdrawal of Soviet forces from Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. In October of that year Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of his foreign policy initiatives


Why do you refuse to read about the guy?
 
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Gorbache.html


Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev , 1931-, Soviet political leader. Born in the agricultural region of Stavropol, Gorbachev studied law at Moscow State Univ., where in 1953 he married a philosophy student, Raisa Maksimovna Titorenko (1932?-99). Returning to Stavropol, he moved gradually upward in the local Communist party. In 1970, he became Stavropol party leader and was elected to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. Regarded as a skilled technocrat and a reformer, Gorbachev joined (1978) the Communist party secretariat as agriculture secretary, and in 1980 he joined the politburo as the protégé of Yuri Andropov . After Andropov's ascension to party leadership, Gorbachev assumed (1983) full responsibility for the economy.
 
Desh said:
In 1985 Gorbachev installed the reform-minded Eduard Shevardnadze as foreign minister and held his first summit meeting with U.S. president Ronald Reagan. In all, Gorbachev held nine summits with U.S. presidents Reagan and George Bush, and also established relationships with British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, West German chancellor Helmut Kohl, and other Western leaders. In 1987 Gorbachev called for “new thinking” in the Soviet Union regarding international relations, and in many ways he put the fresh ideas that came to the fore into effect. That year he and President Reagan signed an agreement calling for both countries’ elimination of all their land-based nuclear missiles of intermediate and shorter range. In July 1991 he and President Bush signed the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I), committing the two countries to sharp reductions in their nuclear arsenals. Gorbachev’s government withdrew all forces from Afghanistan between May 1988 and early 1989 and cut its support for revolutionary movements and anti-Western governments in Africa. In the Middle East, the Soviet government improved relations with Israel and cooperated in the American-led effort to evict Iraqi forces from Kuwait in 1991, during the Persian Gulf War.

The most far-reaching changes, however, were in Soviet policy toward the other countries of Eastern Europe, which had been under Soviet domination since the 1940s. Gorbachev warned the Communist governments in those countries that the USSR would no longer use force to keep them in power, and he encouraged the East European countries to fend for themselves economically and to embark on internal reforms. In 1989 a tide of political change washed over the region, culminating in the collapse of the Communist regime in East Germany and the opening of the Berlin Wall. In 1990 Gorbachev agreed to the reunification of Germany and the withdrawal of Soviet forces from Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. In October of that year Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of his foreign policy initiatives


Why do you refuse to read about the guy?
Click to expand...

Everything you said is from 1985 onward, retard. Was he born in 1985? No. Which means that all of his reform came after he became Secretary, which is what I've been saying the entire fucking time.
 
Desh said:
In 1985 Gorbachev installed the reform-minded Eduard Shevardnadze as foreign minister and held his first summit meeting with U.S. president Ronald Reagan. In all, Gorbachev held nine summits with U.S. presidents Reagan and George Bush, and also established relationships with British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, West German chancellor Helmut Kohl, and other Western leaders. In 1987 Gorbachev called for “new thinking” in the Soviet Union regarding international relations, and in many ways he put the fresh ideas that came to the fore into effect. That year he and President Reagan signed an agreement calling for both countries’ elimination of all their land-based nuclear missiles of intermediate and shorter range. In July 1991 he and President Bush signed the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I), committing the two countries to sharp reductions in their nuclear arsenals. Gorbachev’s government withdrew all forces from Afghanistan between May 1988 and early 1989 and cut its support for revolutionary movements and anti-Western governments in Africa. In the Middle East, the Soviet government improved relations with Israel and cooperated in the American-led effort to evict Iraqi forces from Kuwait in 1991, during the Persian Gulf War.

The most far-reaching changes, however, were in Soviet policy toward the other countries of Eastern Europe, which had been under Soviet domination since the 1940s. Gorbachev warned the Communist governments in those countries that the USSR would no longer use force to keep them in power, and he encouraged the East European countries to fend for themselves economically and to embark on internal reforms. In 1989 a tide of political change washed over the region, culminating in the collapse of the Communist regime in East Germany and the opening of the Berlin Wall. In 1990 Gorbachev agreed to the reunification of Germany and the withdrawal of Soviet forces from Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. In October of that year Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of his foreign policy initiatives


Why do you refuse to read about the guy?
Click to expand...


I'm going to repost what Socrtease said, without his permission, because it is spot on. Desh you refuse to acknowledge what forced Gorbachev to come to the table.


"""Holy re-written history batman. The ONLY reason Gorby came to the table finally was because the USSR was spending itself into oblivion trying to keep up with the US military spending. Star Wars, Sgt York, Modern naval weapons, etc. The Soviet Union was starving to death trying to keep up with us. There was NO WAY they could have continued so Gorby came to the table. To pretend that it was done out of the goodness of Gorby's heart is to completely ignore history. God Desh you are such a partisan you can't even admit when a republican accomplished something."""
 
In 1970, he became Stavropol party leader and was elected to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. Regarded as a skilled technocrat and a reformer, Gorbachev joined (1978) the Communist party secretariat as agriculture secretary, and in 1980 he joined the politburo as the protégé of Yuri Andropov


His was a reformer throughout his carreer
 
Desh said:
In 1970, he became Stavropol party leader and was elected to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. Regarded as a skilled technocrat and a reformer, Gorbachev joined (1978) the Communist party secretariat as agriculture secretary, and in 1980 he joined the politburo as the protégé of Yuri Andropov


His was a reformer throughout his carreer
Click to expand...

Because encarta says he was regarded as one?
 
It was their economic stagnation that killed the beast. Military spending just hastened it.
//

I just hope we are not headed down the same path.
 
She picked one sentence and ignore that the "United States (led by Reagan) ratcheted up the pressure by several means" part.
 
I already said it hastened their demise by some years.

Are you saying the corruption which characterized the soviet system was not the major factor in their demise?

The whole thing was this type of system cannot survive because it is an unworkable system in the long run.
 
Desh said:
I already said it hastened their demise by some years.

Are you saying the corruption which characterized the soviet system was not the major factor in their demise?

The whole thing was this type of system cannot survive because it is an unworkable system in the long run.
Click to expand...
Of course it was, the beauty of Reagan's plan is it took advantage of those little foibles and worked to hasten the demise. It worked. Of course he was only a portion of it. The Pope took part as well as many others. Working together using their own corruption against them, the reality of the system's failures became apparent.

The attempt by the modern left to reduce the importance of Reagan's policies in hastening that demise is what people object to.

That and the attempt to say he was a NeoCon solely because Bush was a VP and people he didn't listen to held a small part of his Admin staff.
 
Gorby changed it because he himself knew it was dying and it is why he was a reformer.

He worked to reform the agricultural system with some success which is why he moved up in the ranks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top