blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I would suggest he find politics that make sense beyond his antiwar stance. He doesn't have any.
Fortunately, the antiwar movement does not need Ron Paul.
Ron Paul Tea Party
- Thread starter Timshel
- Start date
I would suggest he find politics that make sense beyond his antiwar stance. He doesn't have any.
Fortunately, the antiwar movement does not need Ron Paul.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
He's corporations best friend.
uscitizen
Villified User
Yep and I wonder if his political speeches have included privitization ?
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
fixed that for you.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
Legitimacy BAC. The Libertarian party has been laughed at for the past 30 years, with no chance at getting any kind of support. The greater his numbers, the next candidate like him will become more legitimate. It takes more than .15% of the vote to be taken seriously. Democrats hated Nader for that little bit of a vote he took from them, Bush Senior hated Perot for taking away votes from him. Both parties worked to make it harder for a third party candidate to gain any sort of legitimacy. Seeing him get this kind of support in a political landscape where he is doomed to fail is success.
It is more about the direction of the country than it is about Ron Paul. It would be nice to see him break double digits in the polls, where the common voter is asked, but I know his base isn't the 'common voter' and his primary numbers will be better.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
A sound argument, however Paul isn't a 3rd party candidate and even he agrees that 3rd parties have no chance.
We are in a fight for the direction of this country, but people like Paul cannot lead it. The difference between Paul and Nader/Perot is that Nader and Perot had a broad spectrum of support that included every demographic in America .. which has to be the real future of 3rd party candidates.
ironhead
anarcho-capitalist
And how do you know that Ron Paul's support does not come from a broad spectrum of demographics?? Assumptions, nothing more.
ironhead
anarcho-capitalist
I find it hilarious that so many on the left blindly call Ron Paul a "best friend of corporate power" when he clearly is not. The man's financial support comes from tens of thousands of individuals, not corporate donations, in sharp contrast to all of the 'major' candidates. Moreover, Ron Paul openly talks about his top priorities including dismantling the military industrial complex (the most entrenched corporate power in America, and incidentally the most destructive). He advocates eliminating corporate welfare and subsidies; he advocates getting out of corporate-authored, government-managed trade treaties/organizations such as NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, etc. Dr. Paul wants to reduce the influences HMO's have in making medical decisions as well. Most importantly, he wants to end our corporate-dominated foreign policy of hegemony across the globe.
Essentially, those who are arguing RP is a "best friend" of corporate power are doing so because he does not support wealth redistribution via government force/coercion. I did not know one had to be a socialist to be against the influence of corporate power. This is a baseless and feckless argument, and as someone who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, I am surprised that many on the left see it this way.
Essentially, those who are arguing RP is a "best friend" of corporate power are doing so because he does not support wealth redistribution via government force/coercion. I did not know one had to be a socialist to be against the influence of corporate power. This is a baseless and feckless argument, and as someone who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, I am surprised that many on the left see it this way.
uscitizen
Villified User
And after all that "Ron Paul is your friend" campaining. Umm the ads failed dude.
People do not want to buy what you are sellin.
ironhead
anarcho-capitalist
That will be determined in the primaries. However, your statement does nothing to detract from my argument that Ron Paul is NOT a friend of corporate power.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
It would indeed help the level of conversation if you try harder to keep up.
Try opensecrets.org
81.5% of Paul's donors are male.
And it doesn't take Open Secrets to know that the vast majority of those males are white.
That's how I know.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
That's ridiculous.
Paul wants to remove all regulations, restrictions, and limitations on corporate power under the guise of the "free market."
He wants to remove all limitations on campaign financing, which will result in corporations buying even more politicians. His policies would allow corporations to run wild.
You cannot be an anti-corporatist and support an unregulated free market both at the same time. If you are going to stand up to the abuses of large multinationals, then you are talking about regulating the market and not allowing multinationals to continue gaining an increasing grip on the government without any checks to their power.
ironhead
anarcho-capitalist
I've heard RP say that we are "over-regulated", but never that "all regulations need to be abolished". Even if he does, I'd disagree (esp. with respect to the environment) and would not be able to get that type of change without Congressional approval, unlike the President's reins on foreign policy. Moreover, RP would keep tort laws, which go a long way in serving to punish fraud and externalities pushed on to the public.
CFR does nothing to stop corporate influence, anyway. Do you feel that their influence on the political process has been curtailed since McCain-Feingold? So many regulations are written by the most well-connected in industry, anyway.
Your argument is essentially a strawman.
Message from Ron
December 17, 2007
What a day! I am humbled and inspired, grateful and thrilled for this
vast outpouring of support.
On just one day, in honor of the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea
Party, the new American revolutionaries brought in $6.04 million, another
one-day record. The average donation was $102; we had 58,407
individual contributors, of whom an astounding 24,915 were first-time donors.
And it was an entirely voluntary, self-organized, decentralized,
independent effort on the internet. Must be the "spammers" I keep hearing
about!
The establishment is baffled and worried, and well they should be. They
keep asking me who runs our internet fundraising and controls our
volunteers. To these top-down central planners, a spontaneous order like
our movement is science-fiction. But you and I know it's real: as real as
the American people's yearning for freedom, peace, and prosperity, as
real as all the men and women who have sacrificed for our ideals, in
the past and today.
And how neat to see celebrations all across the world, with Tea Parties
from France to New Zealand. This is how we can spread the ideals of
our country, through voluntary emulation, not bombs and bribes. Of
course, there were hundreds in America.
As I dropped in on a cheering, laughing crowd of about 600 near my home
in Freeport, Texas, I noted that they call us "angry." Well, we are
the happiest, most optimistic "angry" movement ever, and the most
diverse. What unites us is a love of liberty, and a determination to fix what
is wrong with our country, from the Fed to the IRS, from warfare to
welfare. But otherwise we are a big tent.
Said the local newspaper
(http://www.thefacts.com/story.lasso?ewcd=36475b4d132fc0a1): "The
elderly sat with teens barely old enough to vote. The faces were black,
Hispanic, Asian and white. There was no fear in their voices as they spoke
boldly with each other about the way the country should be. Held close
like a deeply held secret, Paul has brought them out of the disconnect
they feel between what they know to be true and where the country has
been led."
Thanks also to the 500 or so who braved the blizzard in Boston to go to
Faneuil Hall. My son Rand told me what a great time he had with you.
A few mornings ago on LewRockwell.com, I saw a YouTube of a 14-year-old
boy that summed up our whole movement for me. This well-spoken young
man, who could have passed in knowledge for a college graduate, told how
he heard our ideas being denounced. So he decided to Google. He read
some of my speeches, and thought, these make sense. Then he studied US
foreign policy of recent years, and came to the conclusion that we are
right. So he persuaded his father to drop Rudy Giuliani and join our
movement.
All over America, all over the world, we are inspiring real change.
With the wars and the spying, the spending and the taxing, the inflation
and the credit crisis, our ideas have never been more needed. Please
help me spread them https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate in all 50 states.
Victory for liberty! That is our goal, and nothing less.
Sincerely,
Ron
December 17, 2007
What a day! I am humbled and inspired, grateful and thrilled for this
vast outpouring of support.
On just one day, in honor of the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea
Party, the new American revolutionaries brought in $6.04 million, another
one-day record. The average donation was $102; we had 58,407
individual contributors, of whom an astounding 24,915 were first-time donors.
And it was an entirely voluntary, self-organized, decentralized,
independent effort on the internet. Must be the "spammers" I keep hearing
about!
The establishment is baffled and worried, and well they should be. They
keep asking me who runs our internet fundraising and controls our
volunteers. To these top-down central planners, a spontaneous order like
our movement is science-fiction. But you and I know it's real: as real as
the American people's yearning for freedom, peace, and prosperity, as
real as all the men and women who have sacrificed for our ideals, in
the past and today.
And how neat to see celebrations all across the world, with Tea Parties
from France to New Zealand. This is how we can spread the ideals of
our country, through voluntary emulation, not bombs and bribes. Of
course, there were hundreds in America.
As I dropped in on a cheering, laughing crowd of about 600 near my home
in Freeport, Texas, I noted that they call us "angry." Well, we are
the happiest, most optimistic "angry" movement ever, and the most
diverse. What unites us is a love of liberty, and a determination to fix what
is wrong with our country, from the Fed to the IRS, from warfare to
welfare. But otherwise we are a big tent.
Said the local newspaper
(http://www.thefacts.com/story.lasso?ewcd=36475b4d132fc0a1): "The
elderly sat with teens barely old enough to vote. The faces were black,
Hispanic, Asian and white. There was no fear in their voices as they spoke
boldly with each other about the way the country should be. Held close
like a deeply held secret, Paul has brought them out of the disconnect
they feel between what they know to be true and where the country has
been led."
Thanks also to the 500 or so who braved the blizzard in Boston to go to
Faneuil Hall. My son Rand told me what a great time he had with you.
A few mornings ago on LewRockwell.com, I saw a YouTube of a 14-year-old
boy that summed up our whole movement for me. This well-spoken young
man, who could have passed in knowledge for a college graduate, told how
he heard our ideas being denounced. So he decided to Google. He read
some of my speeches, and thought, these make sense. Then he studied US
foreign policy of recent years, and came to the conclusion that we are
right. So he persuaded his father to drop Rudy Giuliani and join our
movement.
All over America, all over the world, we are inspiring real change.
With the wars and the spying, the spending and the taxing, the inflation
and the credit crisis, our ideas have never been more needed. Please
help me spread them https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate in all 50 states.
Victory for liberty! That is our goal, and nothing less.
Sincerely,
Ron
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You are indeed most welcome to feel that it's a strawman if you chose, but quite obviously, you don't even know the candidate you're supporting, nor do you know what a strawman is, frankly.
At the GOP debate at Saint Anselm College, Jun 3, 2007 he was asked:
Question: Bush's energy bill provided billions of dollars in tax breaks & subsidies to the oil companies with the goal of boosting domestic production at a time of record profits. Do you support that?
Paul: I don't think the profits is the issue. The profits are okay if they're legitimately earned in a free market. What I object to are subsidies to big corporations when we subsidize them and give them R&D money. I don't think that should be that way. They should take it out of the funds that they earn.
That's what he said ..
Here's what he did ... Paul voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies.
On HR 6 .. legislation that sought to end the unwarranted tax breaks and subsidies which have been lavished on Big Oil over the last several years, at a time of record prices at the gas pump and record oil industry profits. Big Oil is hitting the American taxpayer not once, not twice, but three times. They are hitting them at the pump, they are hitting them through the Tax Code, and they are hitting them with royalty holidays put into oil in 1995 and again in 2005.
It is time to vote for the integrity of America's resources, to vote for the end of corporate welfare, to vote for a new era in the management of our public energy resources.
But not for Mr. Paul who spoke out of both sides of his mouth .. AGAIN. He often says one thing, then votes another.
So not only are record profits OK at a time when Americans are asked to make sacrifices for a war that is making the record profits possible, it also appears that subsidies are also OK with Mr. Paul .. and you think stating that one cannot be anti-corporate while supporting everything "free market" at the same time is a strawman.
OK
Paul also voted NO on allowing stockholder voting on executive compensation. (Apr 2007)
Voted YES on replacing illegal export tax breaks with $140B in new breaks. (Jun 2004)
Voted YES on Bankruptcy Overhaul requiring partial debt repayment. (Mar 2001)
There is a wealth of information about Paul and his laissez-faire myopic approach to corporations which are all designed to empower corporations beyond their wildest dreams.
Additionally, you're correct about congressional intervention to his policies, which wouldn't be any different than the intervention he's gotten his entire political career. The man can't even pass his own bills and has never held a leadership position.
By the way, he also doesn't believe there should BE a united America. Thinks we should be a bunch of nation-states like europe. Let's see him get that passed.
But you think he should be the president.
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Large corps are the result of regulation, taxing income and legal advantages granted by the government.
http://www.holisticpolitics.org/Corporations/index.php
http://www.holisticpolitics.org/Corporations/index.php
Okay. Without killing anybody they went on board ships and dumped tea into the harbor. I am sure that put the fear of tea dumping on the minds of everybody. I mean, nothing strikes fear into a body than dumping tea in water. Especially cold and salty water.
It was an instance of civil disobedience, not of "terrorism".