Socrates and Jesus

PostmodernProphet said:
amazing.....that is the very thing the Pharisees taught and Jesus came to condemn.....liberation from sin is not based on the individuals actions or ethics....it is based solely on his sacrifice on our behalf......how could you have gotten what he said, so wrong.....
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Like Plato (Socrates), Jesus articulated a form of individual spritual freedom --- which depended on
knowledge of a moral or spiritual truth, a religious truth.
 
Cypress said:
Like Plato (Socrates), Jesus articulated a form of individual spritual freedom --- which depended on
knowledge of a moral or spiritual truth, a religious truth.
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if by "individual spiritual freedom" you mean people could choose to believe in him or not believe in him, then yes......but he didn't say they were liberated if they chose to not believe.........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
if by "individual spiritual freedom" you mean people could choose to believe in him or not believe in him, then yes......but he didn't say they were liberated if they chose to not believe.........
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During antiquity, there were three forms of freedom. articulated in the Hindu, Greek, and Christian traditions

The Christian view of freedom:

A. Four hundred years after Plato, Christ expounded a philosophy of spiritual freedom:

1. This philosophy imbues Biblical statements such as “ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free,” and “whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.”

2. Christian philosophy was further developed by St. Augustine, who wrote “the will is truly free when it is not the slave of vices, passions and sins.”

B. Like Plato and the Hindi philosophers, Christ believed in two forms of freedom:

1. Freedom in a social or political sense was not what concerned him.
2. The second form of freedom depended on knowledge of a moral or spiritual truth, which was a religious truth. This truth led to freedom from sin, ignorance, and fear.

Conceptions of freedom in the ancient world differ, but there are many similarities.
A. All three (Indian, Greek, and Christian) distinguish between lower and higher forms of freedom.
1. There is a greater freedom than simply acting as one wishes.
2. The higher freedom comes after transcending one’s addiction to material possessions.

Source credit: Dennis Dalton, Ph.D., Colombia University
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hrist believed in two forms of freedom:

...
2. The second form of freedom depended on knowledge of a moral or spiritual truth, which was a religious truth. This truth led to freedom from sin, ignorance, and fear.
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????......where does this claim come from.......cite a quote from Jesus that supports the claim......the knowledge of truth that sets people free was knowledge of Jesus Christ himself.....
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????......where does this claim come from.......cite a quote from Jesus that supports the claim......the knowledge of truth that sets people free was knowledge of Jesus Christ himself.....
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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I am taking the word of a trained scholar of historical antiquity at a prestigious American University, over the opinion of a foul mouthed phony Christian on an obscure message board.
 
Cypress said:
I am taking the word of a trained scholar of historical antiquity at a prestigious American University, over the opinion of a foul mouthed phony Christian on an obscure message board.
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/shrugs....and I am taking the words of God over the word of a trained scholar of historical antiquity at a prestigious American University who apparently has never read the words of God.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/shrugs....and I am taking the words of God over the word of a trained scholar of historical antiquity at a prestigious American University who apparently has never read the words of God.......
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You have never actually read the New Testament or the Septuagint, because they were written in ancient Greek.

You have only read facsimiles written in vernacular English, which is only capable of rendering a pale and imperfect translation of the meaning and intent found in the original archaic Greek.

That is why people actually interested in reputable biblical scholarship will place great weight on PhD theologians and religious scholars who are trained in Latin, Greek, philosophy, and logic.
 
Cypress said:
You have never actually read the New Testament or the Septuagint, because they were written in ancient Greek.

You have only read facsimiles written in vernacular English, which is only capable of rendering a pale and imperfect translation of the meaning and intent found in the original archaic Greek.

That is why people actually interested in reputable biblical scholarship will place great weight on PhD theologians and religious scholars who are trained in Latin, Greek, philosophy, and logic.
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actually as part of my Masters in Theology I was required to read the NT in Greek (and the OT in Hebrew rather than the inferior Greek translation).....there is no reason to place any weight in the arguments of a theologian who ignores the clear meaning of a text.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually as part of my Masters in Theology I was required to read the NT in Greek (and the OT in Hebrew rather than the inferior Greek translation).....there is no reason to place any weight in the arguments of a theologian who ignores the clear meaning of a text.....
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How frequently do you call female posters cunts?
Why do you have not a shred of remorse for lying about permanently leaving the board if Trump were impeached?

Nope, I do not believe a foul mouthed, curses-at-the-drop-of-a-dime, lies-without-remorse poster is a graduate of a reputable divinity school, fluent in Greek and Latin, and is actually an authentic and devout principled Christian in any way.
 
Cypress said:
How frequently do you call female posters cunts?
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about a tenth as frequently as I call male posters cunts.....considering how many times I have called you a mindless cunt, that should have been obvious.....besides that, those same posters have called me the same or worse.....

Why do you have not a shred of remorse for lying about permanently leaving the board if Trump were impeached?
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why do you feel no remorse about pretending this political charade is in any way related to a real impeachment......impeachment is for crimes, not for continuously embarrassing your political opponents......

Nope, I do not believe a foul mouthed, curses-at-the-drop-of-a-dime, lies-without-remorse poster is a graduate of a reputable divinity school, fluent in Greek and Latin, and is actually an authentic and devout principled Christian in any way.
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well, you know what you atheists say about belief without proof......(by the way, I did not say I was fluent in Greek and Hebrew.....they are a real bitch to struggle through......however that does not change the fact that the NIV translation is incredibly accurate and your source of information is a critical theory whackjob).........
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
about a tenth as frequently as I call male posters cunts.....considering how many times I have called you a mindless cunt, that should have been obvious.....besides that, those same posters have called me the same or worse.....



why do you feel no remorse about pretending this political charade is in any way related to a real impeachment......impeachment is for crimes, not for continuously embarrassing your political opponents......



well, you know what you atheists say about belief without proof......(by the way, I did not say I was fluent in Greek and Hebrew.....they are a real bitch to struggle through......however that does not change the fact that the NIV translation is incredibly accurate and your source of information is a critical theory whackjob).........
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So you admit to being foul mouthed, belligerent, and dishonest.

A phony Christian in other words.

No, I do not believe you are a biblical scholar fluent in Greek and Latin. In fact, I think that is yet another one of your endless lies
 
Cypress said:
Jesus and Socrates invite comparison as two of the greatest teachers in history and as seminal figures in the story of freedom.

Both were true philosophers, lovers of wisdom who saw their teaching as a vocation—not a career—and who lived and died as witnesses to the truth. Both brought messages of individual liberation and salvation to societies rooted in communal concepts of freedom.

As lovers of wisdom, Both Socrates and Jesus were concerned with the individual’s soul:

1. Socrates turned from the study of science to the soul.
2. Jesus had no interest in a political kingdom of God; his kingdom of God was in the individual’s soul.

The teachings of both Socrates and Jesus aimed at leading the individual to ethical decisions.

Both aroused bitter enmity among their peers—Sophists and Pharisees. Both were tried and sentenced to death by a jury of their peers on charges of blasphemy and treason.

Socrates was charged:
1. With blasphemy or atheism: refusing to believe in the gods of Athens, but in new, different divinities.
2. With treason: corrupting the young.

Jesus was convicted:
1. Of blasphemy before the Jewish Sanhedrin.
2. Of treason, for claiming to be king of the Jews, before the Roman governor Pontius Pilate.

In each case, the charges were completely false. Both Socrates and Jesus were the victims of envy and slander. The most effective form of slander, “the Big Lie,” was used against both teachers.

The real reason that both teachers were convicted and executed was that both Socrates and Jesus struck at the heart of the community.

Neither Socrates or Jesus published. Why did Socrates and Jesus not publish?
1. Publication is an act of finality. It suggests that you know the truth.
2. The true philosopher is always searching for the truth, and in this search, there is no earthly finality.

Both proved even more powerful in death than in life. Since neither Socrates nor Jesus published anything their posthumous impact could be achieved only by others institutionalizing them. Plato institutionalized Socrates, while Saint Paul institutionalized Jesus:

1. Plato reduced the message of Socrates to writing and, along with Aristotle, laid the foundation of the modern university.
2. St. Paul interpreted the message of Jesus in a form comprehensible. to Greeks and Romans and laid the foundation for the Christian church.




Source credit: Professor Rufus Fears, University of Oklahoma
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Socrates created the idea of a social soul, Jesus realized each person was an eternal sole displacement to an ever changing population nothing stayed the same as arrived so far.
 
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