Suspended for not standing for pledge!

blackascoal said:
Not so my friend.

I clearly see the shades of gray as I have no problem with kids that stand and those who chose not to stand. As long as they are not being disruptive, they should have the right to think.

He was ordered to stand to show respect for the flag just as the other students were ordered to stand. This has nothing to do with student wishes, desires, or requests my brother.

Once again it is the right that takes so much stock in pretense and a belief in the goosestep.

You're right about my mother .. but it wasn't a demonstration of my respect, but rather a demonstration that I was not allowed to think. Is that what we want from students? Shouldn't we encourage an open-minded free-thinking society?
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Your mother was not suppressing your "right to think" when she took such action. She was increasing your ability to get along with others by teaching you when to show respect for them, even if you don't agree or believe the same way.

There is no way I believe that my mother was showing me how to "not think" when she taught me those things.
 
blackascoal said:
Why are teachers ordered to order students to stand during the pledge?

Is respectfully keeping your seat somehow disrespectful?

Is there value in students thinking for themselves without being disruptive?
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I don't think they are.

The story says he was doing this throughout the year.
 
blackascoal said:
Why are teachers ordered to order students to stand during the pledge?

Is respectfully keeping your seat somehow disrespectful?

Is there value in students thinking for themselves without being disruptive?
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Again I ask, if you had a speaker the kid disagrees with stand and turn their back on him in silent protest... is that any different than refusing to stand during the pledge? If they are forced to sit and listen to someone they despise?

Having the kids stand is not forcing them to acknowledge the flag or say the pledge. The kid sitting most certainly is disrepectful to the authority of the teacher. I am all for kids thinking and making choices on their own, but they also need to be taught when to respect authority and others around you.
 
I really think we need to encourage our kids to think.

To punish this young man for having thoughts and not wanting it to be noticed that he thought for himself is really kind of sad.
 
Desh said:
I really think we need to encourage our kids to think.

To punish this young man for having thoughts and not wanting it to be noticed that he thought for himself is really kind of sad.
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Umm standing out by not standing is not wanting it to be noticed.
It is wanting to be noticed.
 
Desh said:
I really think we need to encourage our kids to think.

To punish this young man for having thoughts and not wanting it to be noticed that he thought for himself is really kind of sad.
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Teaching a kid to think and being respectful of authority are not mutually exclusive.
 
uscitizen said:
Once they get out in the real world they will find they have to act respectful to people they despise.
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What is disrespectful about sitting quietly? The teacher was out of bounds in the first place by requiring the student to stand during the pledge.
 
Damocles said:
Your mother was not suppressing your "right to think" when she took such action. She was increasing your ability to get along with others by teaching you when to show respect for them, even if you don't agree or believe the same way.

There is no way I believe that my mother was showing me how to "not think" when she taught me those things.
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Forcing me to stand during prayer had nothing to do with anybody else but had everything to do with my mother's authority .. which is the lesson she was giving me .. which was the same lesson that the other kids were getting.

Had ZERO to do with "getting along" .. which I learned to do much better outside of my mother's authority. Getting along requires thinking, not discipline.
 
Desh said:
Again you guys if he was sitting quietly he was not being disrespectful.
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You either respect the teacher's authority in the class room or you don't. If kids pick and choose when they want to how much control do you believe that teacher really has?
 
cawacko said:
You either respect the teacher's authority in the class room or you don't. If kids pick and choose when they want to how much control do you believe that teacher really has?
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We're talking about the Pledge .. which by the way my brother has been altered, adjusted, and successfully challenged many times.

Allowing students to quietly maintain their seats is a better policy.
 
cawacko said:
You either respect the teacher's authority in the class room or you don't. If kids pick and choose when they want to how much control do you believe that teacher really has?
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Why should we allow teachers to force them to stand during the pledge?
 
Dungheap said:
What is disrespectful about sitting quietly? The teacher was out of bounds in the first place by requiring the student to stand during the pledge.
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Perhaps the teacher was out of bounds. And I think a probable change was mentioned. but you follow orders on such things in school and go thru channels if you disagree.
This is the way the real world works and school is prep for the real world.
 
uscitizen said:
Once they get out in the real world they will find they have to act respectful to people they despise.
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Those who believe they can only think within the box and can only do as they're told .. once they get into the real world become republicans.

That 26% who still support Bush all believe in your argument.

Every one of them.
 
blackascoal said:
Those who believe they can only think within the box and can only do as they're told .. once they get into the real world become republicans.

That 26% who still support Bush all believe in your argument.

Every one of them.
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So...

He should conform to your way of thought or he is "bad"...

Interesting.

First, I was called "stupid" because I disagreed. Then, I am told that I am not thinking because I disagree. Then when we show it is a reasoned thought that brought us to where we disagreed, you now attempt to use this?

There is only one side here who thinks that we must agree with them or "else".
 
blackascoal said:
Those who believe they can only think within the box and can only do as they're told .. once they get into the real world become republicans.

That 26% who still support Bush all believe in your argument.

Every one of them.
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Yeah right. Cuss out the next politician you see, or cop, or your boss, etc and see how things work out. refuse to go by the corporate rules or dress code ?

The real world has rules, and if we are to reasonably fit in we must pretty much follow those rules. That is not to say we should not work to change those we disagree with. But the price can be high.
 
Damocles said:
So...

He should conform to your way of thought or he is "bad"...

Interesting.

First, I was called "stupid" because I disagreed. Then, I am told that I am not thinking because I disagree. Then when we show it is a reasoned thought that brought us to where we disagreed, you now attempt to use this?

There is only one side here who thinks that we must agree with them or "else".
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Damo, Damo, Damo ...

Where did I say he was "bad."

I am merely disagreeing with his conclusion .. just like you are with mine.

Please find a real argument.

I didn't call you stupid but I disagree with your conclusion.

In my opinion this boils down to ones perspective on the freedom of thought. Conservatives like yourself predictably fall on the side of authority and order, hence my comment about the right-wing .. and lo and behold, most who agree with you are on the right and those opposed are on the left.

Predictably, the left believes that authority and order often has to be challenged. We think that's what freedom is about.

Students are not required to recite the Pledge .. is that "disruptive" to other students? The courts don't think so .. and they came to that conclusion when the left challenged its authority and order.

Why is the Pledge even required anyway?

Are you somehow less American if you don't hear the Pledge?
 
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