Suspended for not standing for pledge!

Damocles said:
Again, you aren't respecting the flag or God. Only those with blinders on for one issue cannot see that there is more to the issue than just cloth and magic-men and that sometimes simple manners, especially when it isn't all that difficult, should be taught and promoted in the schools.
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You seem blind to the fact that to some people, standing for something you do not belive in, is giving that thing power and respect that you may not belive it deserves. Standing up for something you believe in, or in this case not standing up for somethign you dont belive in, is more important than being polite.
 
Jarod said:
You seem blind to the fact that to some people, standing for something you do not belive in, is giving that thing power and respect that you may not belive it deserves. Standing up for something you believe in, or in this case not standing up for somethign you dont belive in, is more important than being polite.
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Again, you limit it only to what you want to see and disregard any other premise that they may be asked to stand.

Only one side attempts to simplify this to this extent. Oversimplification becomes a fallacy when used in this fashion. They would not be forced to "stand for something that they don't believe in" unless they don't believe in the other people in the room. As for "more important" that is code for, "you must believe exactly what I say" or you are being "conservative".

It's rubbish for an argument.
 
Jarod said:
You seem blind to the fact that to some people, standing for something you do not belive in, is giving that thing power and respect that you may not belive it deserves. Standing up for something you believe in, or in this case not standing up for somethign you dont belive in, is more important than being polite.
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Not to mention that sitting quietly is neither impolite nor disrespectful.
 
Damocles said:
Again, you limit it only to what you want to see and disregard any other premise that they may be asked to stand.

Only one side attempts to simplify this to this extent. Oversimplification becomes a fallacy when used in this fashion. They would not be forced to "stand for something that they don't believe in" unless they don't believe in the other people in the room. As for "more important" that is code for, "you must believe exactly what I say" or you are being "conservative".

It's rubbish for an argument.
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Standing for other people in the room is not the issue. They are required to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Pretending that the issue is "standing for other people in the room" as opposed to "standing for the pledge of allegiance" is laughable.
 
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Dungheap said:
Not to mention that sitting quietly is neither impolite nor disrespectful.
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I believe that refusing to stand is disrespectful to the others. That is where we disagree.

At least you aren't pretending that the only premise they'd be asked to stand is to show respect to "god" for the little gods' sakes!
 
Dungheap said:
Standing for other people in the room is not the issue. They are required to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Pretending that the issue is "standing for other people in the room" as opposed to "standing for the pledge of allegiance" is laughable.
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They aren't standing for the "pledge". They are asked to stand during the pledge, IMO because it shows respect for others in the room who are standing for the pledge.

The premise that it is to show respect for "God" is preposterous. Plain silly. Dubious. However you want to say it. It is just ridiculous.
 
Damocles said:
I believe that refusing to stand is disrespectful to the others. That is where we disagree.

At least you aren't pretending that the only premise they'd be asked to stand is to show respect to "god" for the little gods' sakes!
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How is it disrespectful to the others? I just don't get it. In what way is it disrespectful? And why is respecting the rights of the student to express whatever it is he is expressing by refusing to stand (a well-recognized first amendment right mind you) trumped by some vague notion of respecting others in the room (I know of no constitutional right to respect from your peers)?
 
Jarod said:
I resent the rule that I have to stand for some judges who I do not respect.
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Resent away, you respect the position even if you don't respect the man who holds it. It doesn't mean that they expect you to accept the national Motto.
 
Damocles said:
Nobody requested he SAY the pledge, they requested he stand.
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Fuck them and their requests they stand. It is a fucking piece of cloth. No One in a free country should be forced to stand for ANYTHING unless they are in the arm. God Damn right wing cloth loving authoritarians.
 
Dungheap said:
How is it disrespectful to the others? I just don't get it. In what way is it disrespectful? And why is respecting the rights of the student to express whatever it is he is expressing by refusing to stand (a well-recognized first amendment right mind you) trumped by some vague notion of respecting others in the room (I know of no constitutional right to respect from your peers)?
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The same way it would be to reject a yarmulke and attempt to visit the western wall, to not stand during the Russian Anthem while in their place. To reject standing while others are praying, etc.

Is it that big of a deal? No. As I said, and here repeat, this isn't where I would have made my stand if I were the teacher. However, it is preposterous to say that the only possible reason they have to ask them to stand is to respect "Under God" in the pledge or even to respect the pledge. It is simply manners. I would expect my child to stand even if I were not a citizen.
 
blackascoal said:
We get better when we get smarter my brother.

Feigned patriotism doesn't make us smarter .. it just leads to shit like Iraq.

America is about to be seriously tested on whether improvement lies on the left or the right.
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Left and right only exist on such things as abortion and guns, etc in our govt. both sides are pro big business existing on the backs of the little guy.
No left and right does exist in individuals and such , but not so much in our govt any more.
 
Dungheap said:
Standing for other people in the room is not the issue. They are required to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Pretending that the issue is "standing for other people in the room" as opposed to "standing for the pledge of allegiance" is laughable.
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Not that from me , you are standing because the teacher told ya to.
 
Damocles said:
The same way it would be to reject a yarmulke and attempt to visit the western wall, to not stand during the Russian Anthem while in their place. To reject standing while others are praying, etc.

Is it that big of a deal? No. As I said, and here repeat, this isn't where I would have made my stand if I were the teacher. However, it is preposterous to say that the only possible reason they have to ask them to stand is to respect "Under God" in the pledge or even to respect the pledge.
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Yes and in both of those examples you VOLUNTARILY went there. I can't believe I hear you arguing in support of forced respect. I quit standing for the pledge in 5th grade and didn't so much as put my hand on my heart for the flag until I was in the Army but I VOLUNTEERED for that so I was required to pay my respects. But as a private citizen I have no obligation to stand or anything else and if you don't like it I invite you to come make me.
 
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