Suspended for not standing for pledge!
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
Is there any indication these kids were talking over the pledge?
uscitizen
Villified User
Yep Damo pushed it too far.
My stance on the standing is just discipline and order in the classroom.
That too. However, that too is part of the manners I speak of.
Socrtease
Verified User
Shenanigans! I call Shenanigans. Comparing three kids sitting quietly while the rest talk to the flag to kids interupting the teacher while they talk or refusing to participate in a CLASS LEARNING ACTIVITY are comparisons you are too damn smart to be making. There is NO educational benefit to saying the pledge or standing quietly while others do, while not interupting during lessons and participating in lessons have educational benefit. I think in some part you defend these actions because you don't like the fact that those little bastards are already "showing disrespect" to the flag by even refusing to acknowledge that other people want to let the flag now that they are faithful to it. I bet you got mad when people didn't clap for Tinkerbell,
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If they recited it during the pledge all the students would be standing.
If they decided to randomly do it during the day? No. First it would be disruptive.
I once had a law professor who decided that she was going to require us to all stand when she entered the room.
She said it was because when we were attorneys we were going to be require to stand for judges. I refused, and was joined by a few other students. The woman blew her top and left the classroom. She never returned for future classes, she had an assistant teach from then on.
She said it was because when we were attorneys we were going to be require to stand for judges. I refused, and was joined by a few other students. The woman blew her top and left the classroom. She never returned for future classes, she had an assistant teach from then on.
*sigh*
I'm using an example of manners. Simply that. I am not equating the two in any other way other than they are both instances of when the school applies action in support of simple manners.
And you again pretend dishonestly that the rest of the conversation didn't happen and that I want them to show respect to cloth.
You fear the magic-man so much that asking kids to simply show some modicum of politeness is infringing on their rights.
It appears that you were the one emphatically clapping.
Yup, Yup, Yup... what he said!
Well then, with one of your manner examples, I agree, the school should enforce the rule. Anytime a kid is being disruptive to the learning process... that should be against the rules.
As for the pledge I disagree, as refusing to stand does not hender the learning process. In fact suspending the kids DOES disrupt the learning process for those kids on the days they are suspended.
Again, it wasn't the refusal to stand FOR THE PLEDGE that was the issue. According to the story itself the kid had been doing this all year. It was disrespecting the request of the teacher that was the issue.
Hence my examples in that case dealt with disrespecting the teacher.
Hence my examples in that case dealt with disrespecting the teacher.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
So... do you also refuse to stand when a judge enters the courtroom?
An unreasonable request should not be given respect. No matter who the requester is. That is what my children will be taught.
Adults are not automatically to be given respect.
No, because they have the power to put me in jail. I disagree with the rule, except in the situation where it is required to bring the courtroom to order.
Requiring them to stand is infringing on their rights and sitting quietly is not impolite. The need for order and discipline can be squared with respecting the rights of the students by simply not requiring them to stand and instead requiring them to quietly sit during the pledge. In fact, my guess is that this is how pretty much every non-backwoods school district handles these things.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't do the pledge nor would they stand during the pledge for religious reasons. Many Quakers would refuse to stand during the pledge for religious reasons as well.
Socrtease
Verified User
There is nothing un-mannerly in sitting quietly while others stand and talk to the flag. We have all sorts of activities where sitting quietly while others pray or whatever else that society does. You have arbitrarily decided that if I stay sitting quietly while you talk to the flag I have been disrepectful to you. How? What about my sitting quietly is disrepectful? Why are you offended by it? Because I will not acknowledge your acknowledgement of the flag. There is nothing else offensive about it. So once again we are back to school officials being offended by people not showing respect for the flag. Because that is ALL that a person can be offended by when one sits during the pledge.
Nobody ever said he should be given 'automatic' respect, however I believe that his position gives him some of that. Just like the judge that you so resent.
Socrtease
Verified User
Not only WOULDN'T they stand for it there is a federal court case that says they DON"T have to. But because they have another magic reason for not standing we allow it. But if the reason is just I don't talk to flags, that is not magic enough.
Hence my continued repetition that I personally wouldn't have taken this stand. Because it could be construed either way.
Polite is something different to different people. So long as it wasn't disruptive I would have left it alone.
I wonder if this was a sub teacher as he had been doing it the whole year, according to his mom.
And no, that is not the ONLY reason somebody could be "offended" when they don't stand "for the pledge" as I have made clear earlier in the thread.