THIS must end in America!

Greens are usually humanists. Only when you get to the extreme fringes do you encounter Greens that hold an environmental agenda that opposes human life because it hurts the environment. Although, that extreme vision is pretty much the most anti-humanist philosophy possible, and makes Hitler wince.

Nevertheless, most greens advocate anti-human policies.
 
not necessarily, I usually have a very hard time with people who immediately jump to the defense of 'authority' figures even in the face of overwhelming proof that shows otherwise. call it a character flaw that I question all authority.

And here I thought I said that there were people on both sides of this situation that were speculating.:confused:


HMMMMMMMMMMMMM, maybe I was just thinking it. :dunno:

OKEY-DOKEY then!! :thup:
 
First, let me point out that this is a logical fallacy called "Appeal to Authority."

Which, again, either shows the total lack of any ability of this soft science to determine anything, or your own personal biased incapacity to read all the information provided in their surveys and tests.

History proves this totally incorrect, one can see this with the actual information and facts that are before your eyes during any World History class. If you cannot see that the facts that are before your eyes do not fit the preconceived (and IMO directed) result of your "tests", then it is necessary to change the test so that you can find what is right, rather than what you wanted.

First of all, my "excellent post" comment was for Socrtease, not Damocles.

Your post is vague, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to forward...your error is based in your provincialism. So let's start with the definition of Authoritarian personality

The personality type is defined by nine traits that were believed to cluster together as the result of psychodynamic, childhood experiences. These traits are conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotyping, power and "toughness," destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sexuality. In brief, the authoritarian is predisposed to follow the dictates of a strong leader and traditional, conventional values.
wiki


And now a question...

If conservatism is predisposed to follow the dictates of traditional conventional values.... Are the traditions in Russia based on free market capitalism and conventional western values?

OR, would conservatism in Russia be predisposed to follow the dictates of communist traditions and eastern values?
 
First of all, my "excellent post" comment was for Socrtease, not Damocles.

Your post is vague, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to forward...your error is based in your provincialism. So let's start with the definition of Authoritarian personality

The personality type is defined by nine traits that were believed to cluster together as the result of psychodynamic, childhood experiences. These traits are conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotyping, power and "toughness," destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sexuality. In brief, the authoritarian is predisposed to follow the dictates of a strong leader and traditional, conventional values.
wiki


And now a question...

If conservatism is predisposed to follow the dictates of traditional conventional values.... Are the traditions in Russia based on free market capitalism and conventional western values?

OR, would conservatism in Russia be predisposed to follow the dictates of communist traditions and eastern values?

more convoluted questiones and bullshit is not an effective rebuttal


authoritarianism still has nothing to do with 'traditional'.
 
but I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to forward...your error is based in your provincialism. So let's start with the definition of Authoritarian personality

and the rest of us here are sure that you would rather stay stuck on the premise that only the 'right' can be authoritative so you don't have to consider the concept of your precious ideology sinking in the quicksand.

we call this denial. you have it.
 
First of all, my "excellent post" comment was for Socrtease, not Damocles.

Your post is vague, but I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to forward...your error is based in your provincialism. So let's start with the definition of Authoritarian personality

The personality type is defined by nine traits that were believed to cluster together as the result of psychodynamic, childhood experiences. These traits are conventionalism, authoritarian submission, authoritarian aggression, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotyping, power and "toughness," destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and exaggerated concerns over sexuality. In brief, the authoritarian is predisposed to follow the dictates of a strong leader and traditional, conventional values.
wiki


And now a question...

If conservatism is predisposed to follow the dictates of traditional conventional values.... Are the traditions in Russia based on free market capitalism and conventional western values?

OR, would conservatism in Russia be predisposed to follow the dictates of communist traditions and eastern values?
Again, this is preconceived, it begins with a definition then creates tests to fit the already preconceived idea.

Your principal idea. That "this type" of personality, as defined in such a way, would in no way be able to create any other result. This is why people who work in hard sciences reject even calling psychology "science". You begin with a result by defining what the result must be. We are seeking people with these traits... By adding or removing traits as you will, you create a definition that will bring no other result than the one you wanted.

So, we take what really happened, we look at governments that were authoritarian, and we find... what? That your result does not match reality.

Provincialism notwithstanding, these "studies" were Bee Ess and not scientifically valid as they began with the result and tried to work backwards and we find that they are almost totally invalid as ideology does not match the real-world information.

And BTW, the "conservative" by your definition would have fought to bring back the Tsar, as that is the "traditionalist" position, not to uphold and continue the fabricated "Communism".
 
and the rest of us here are sure that you would rather stay stuck on the premise that only the 'right' can be authoritative so you don't have to consider the concept of your precious ideology sinking in the quicksand.

we call this denial. you have it.

Hey pea brain, there's no one here with more knowledge of authoritarianism than me... so your feeble attempt to pull a "rest of us" is just childish school yard crap...

Excerpts:

Triumph of the authoritarians


By John W. Dean * July 14, 2006

CONTEMPORARY CONSERVATISM and its influence on the Republican Party was, until recently, a mystery to me. The practitioners' bludgeoning style of politics, their self-serving manipulation of the political processes, and their policies that focus narrowly on perceived self-interest -- none of this struck me as based on anything related to traditional conservatism. Rather, truth be told, today's so-called conservatives are quite radical.

For more than 40 years I have considered myself a ``Goldwater conservative," and am thoroughly familiar with the movement's canon. But I can find nothing conservative about the Bush/Cheney White House, which has created a Nixon ``imperial presidency" on steroids, while acting as if being tutored by the best and brightest of the Cosa Nostra.

Today's Republican policies are antithetical to bedrock conservative fundamentals. There is nothing conservative about preemptive wars or disregarding international law by condoning torture. Abandoning fiscal responsibility is now standard operating procedure. Bible-thumping, finger-pointing, tongue-lashing attacks on homosexuals are not found in Russell Krik's classic conservative canons, nor in James Burham's guides to conservative governing. Conservatives in the tradition of former senator Barry Goldwater and President Ronald Reagan believed in ``conserving" this planet, not relaxing environmental laws to make life easier for big business. And neither man would have considered employing Christian evangelical criteria in federal programs, ranging from restricting stem cell research to fighting AIDs through abstinence.

For almost half a century, social scientists have been exploring authoritarianism. We do not typically associate authoritarianism with our democracy, but as I discovered while examining decades of empirical research, we ignore some findings at our risk. Unfortunately, the social scientists who have studied these issues report their findings in monographs and professional journals written for their peers, not for general readers. With the help of a leading researcher and others, I waded into this massive body of work.

What I found provided a personal epiphany. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, ``enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades.

Authoritarianism's impact on contemporary conservatism is beyond question. Because this impact is still growing and has troubling (if not actually evil) implications, I hope that social scientists will begin to write about this issue for general readers. It is long past time to bring the telling results of their empirical work into the public square and to the attention of American voters. No less than the health of our democracy may depend on this being done. We need to stop thinking we are dealing with traditional conservatives on the modern stage, and instead recognize that they've often been supplanted by authoritarians.

John W. Dean, former Nixon White House counsel, just published his seventh nonfiction book, ``Conservatives Without Conscience."


While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians
 
Could it also possible that the "victim" threatened the cop and then refused to follow the Officers order to get on the groiund and to put his hands behind his back??

This could and has been played before; but until everything is revealed, it's all speculation and both sides do it.
They told him to button or zip his jacket, which it appears he did. Where the fuck they get that right is beyond me and I found nothing in my search of NJ Law that shows me that can force you cover your chest if you are a male. But after he did that they attacked him, they didn't even get out their car except to attack him. He was not armed, and displayed ZERO threatening behavior. There was no reason for the cop attacking him and the cop should be fired.
 
Sochead should run for president!
No no no. Way too many skeletons in my closet, well at least things I would not want widely disseminated about me, ah who am I kidding, I got a whole bone yard back there. Couldn't give me the job.
 
Hey pea brain, there's no one here with more knowledge of authoritarianism than me... so your feeble attempt to pull a "rest of us" is just childish school yard crap...

and yet you seem to completely ignore that nearly all of the overbearing government oppression right here and now is a result of DECADES of liberal rule starting from the 1930s. now who's the pea brain? that would be you. :pke:


While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.

and you seriously need to take a closer look at history, because nearly every authoritarian/dictator was from the left.
 
No no no. Way too many skeletons in my closet, well at least things I would not want widely disseminated about me, ah who am I kidding, I got a whole bone yard back there. Couldn't give me the job.

Well maybe you could be a political speech writer? It's obvious you have a gift... you just told the pinhead who posted this thread his premise was totally full of crap, and he applauded your post! That takes some skill, I tell ya!
 
and yet you seem to completely ignore that nearly all of the overbearing government oppression right here and now is a result of DECADES of liberal rule starting from the 1930s. now who's the pea brain? that would be you. :pke:




and you seriously need to take a closer look at history, because nearly every authoritarian/dictator was from the left.

I don't know why I waste my time with someone that has a child mind, but answer this question...

If conservatism is predisposed to follow the dictates of traditional conventional values.... Are the traditions in Russia based on free market capitalism and conventional western values?

OR, would conservatism in Russia be predisposed to follow the dictates of communist traditions and eastern values?
 
Well maybe you could be a political speech writer? It's obvious you have a gift... you just told the pinhead who posted this thread his premise was totally full of crap, and he applauded your post! That takes some skill, I tell ya!

If you READ his whole post there is some excellent information. That doesn't mean I agree with every part of his post...

The law & order pea brains who LOVE people punished are on the right...

They think they're tough on crime, but all they are is tough on freedom...
 
They told him to button or zip his jacket, which it appears he did. Where the fuck they get that right is beyond me and I found nothing in my search of NJ Law that shows me that can force you cover your chest if you are a male. But after he did that they attacked him, they didn't even get out their car except to attack him. He was not armed, and displayed ZERO threatening behavior. There was no reason for the cop attacking him and the cop should be fired.

I didn't realize that they had released the Police Report on this; because the only ones that I have heard saying this was about the jacket, was the news report and the "victim"!!
 
They told him to button or zip his jacket, which it appears he did. Where the fuck they get that right is beyond me and I found nothing in my search of NJ Law that shows me that can force you cover your chest if you are a male. But after he did that they attacked him, they didn't even get out their car except to attack him. He was not armed, and displayed ZERO threatening behavior. There was no reason for the cop attacking him and the cop should be fired.

No... he should be fired AND thrown in jail.
 
They told him to button or zip his jacket, which it appears he did. Where the fuck they get that right is beyond me and I found nothing in my search of NJ Law that shows me that can force you cover your chest if you are a male. But after he did that they attacked him, they didn't even get out their car except to attack him. He was not armed, and displayed ZERO threatening behavior. There was no reason for the cop attacking him and the cop should be fired.
This is my question. Why would the cops even ask him to zip up his jacket?

The story smells funny. I would love to hear the cops side of it. Did they really beat him down because he did what they asked?
 
This is my question. Why would the cops even ask him to zip up his jacket?

The story smells funny. I would love to hear the cops side of it. Did they really beat him down because he did what they asked?

I'm sure if you dig hard enough you can come up with some "rational" for the cops' behavior.

Isn't that how it always works?
 
I'm sure if you dig hard enough you can come up with some "rational" for the cops' behavior.

Isn't that how it always works?
I'm unsure if they'd be able to come up with anything that was entirely rational as a rationale. The guy had no appearance of any danger. Didn't even reach into his pockets or anything from the video.

But why the heck would they ask him to zip up his jacket? I can't get past this totally irrational demand from the cops.

There are, however, two sides to every story. I'm having a hard time believing that cops just asked him to zip up then beat him down as a random act of violence. Cops are people too, they do act at least somewhat rationally. What would make them act that way?

Do I think the beat-down was unnecessary? Yes. Do I think it was random and irrational? No.
 
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