What kind of "Christian values" do Conservatives want?

rjhenn said:
Religion has been the justification for warfare and slaughter since biblical times.

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That game can be played through many angles.

It can be argued that atheism, through the explicitly and proudly athesist regimes of Soviet Russia, Maoist China, and other atheist totalitarian communist regimes killed more people in the 20th century than did all religions combined.

The fact of the matter is that war, terror, and genocide are always practiced by the state for the acquisition of resources and wealth. Religion and atheism are barely even tangential as causitive issues
 
StoneByStone said:
But not wanting to use taxes to help the poor is very unchristian. Especially when they're using those taxes for war and to make the rich even richer.
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Compulsion is not charity. To tax for the purpose of "giving to the poor"
(aka "wealth redistribution") is theft, which is very unchristian.

StoneByStone said:
I agree that open borders is bad policy, but I'm not a Christian. According to Christianity, we're supposed to accept and help all immigrants.
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That's not a tenant of Christianity.
 
gfm7175 said:
Compulsion is not charity. To tax for the purpose of "giving to the poor"
(aka "wealth redistribution") is theft, which is very unchristian.


That's not a tenant of Christianity.
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The gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts are practically the world's first Communist manifesto. The Jesus of Luke counsels rich people to share everything they have with the poor, and the first Christians in Judea lived in communes where all property and wealth was shared.

The modern western liberal welfare state is premised, at least in part, on the Christian values of charity, mercy, and social justice.

If you do not want to live in a liberal welfare state premised in part on the western tradition of Christian charity, there is nothing keeping you here
 
Cypress said:
The gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts are practically the world's first Communist manifesto.
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No, they aren't. This has already been addressed in the past.

Cypress said:
The Jesus of Luke counsels rich people to share everything they have with the poor,
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No he doesn't. This has already been addressed in the past.

Cypress said:
and the first Christians in Judea lived in communes where all property and wealth was shared.
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This has already been addressed in the past.

Cypress said:
The modern western liberal welfare state is premised, at least in part, on the Christian values of charity, mercy, and social justice.
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No it isn't. It is premised on compulsion, hate, theft, jealousy, dishonesty, bigotry, racism, etc. etc... Not very christian-like if you ask me.

Cypress said:
If you do not want to live in a liberal welfare state premised in part on the western tradition of Christian charity, there is nothing keeping you here
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I am not of this Earth. I am only passing through.
 
Penderyn said:
I think we can reasonably go by what Jesus is recorded as saying, because people were good at remembering back then, if we want to know what 'Christianity' meant to what we tend to call the early Church. It is difficult to fault, as a statement of how humans should behave, though phrased, inevitably, in the 'god'-centred world-view that made sense at the time. Alas, when we look at how 'Christians' behave, we have to take into account the decision to keep the Old Testament as 'Scripture', the remarkable thinking of the highly-Romanised Paul, the power hunger of various bishops, particularly the Bishops of Rome, and the dreadful consequences of Constantine's attempts to shore up the collapsing Empire with a tamed version of the beliefs that were threatening it. Can't we say that Christians go by what Jesus said, the religious by some elements of the rest?
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Why do you think people from 2000 years ago were better at remembering things for 50 years than later generations?
 
StoneByStone said:
And I'm being called a mass murderer for saying religion is bad for society. Irony!
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Jesus fucking Christ you are a gutless whiner and liar. Who has called you a mass murderer? How many bodies have people claimed you've stacked up like cord wood?
StoneByStone said:
Which is part of why I think religion should die on its own. Dutch Uncle is just being an idiot.
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I support social evolution, but strongly doubt "religion" will ever die. There are multiple reasons, but you obviously would rather sling lies and false accusations than act like a logical adult. Sad.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Jesus fucking Christ you are a gutless whiner and liar. Who has called you a mass murderer? How many bodies have people claimed you've stacked up like cord wood?


I support social evolution, but strongly doubt "religion" will ever die. There are multiple reasons, but you obviously would rather sling lies and false accusations than act like a logical adult. Sad.
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:okjen:
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why do you think people from 2000 years ago were better at remembering things for 50 years than later generations?
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Scholars say that since people of antiquity were almost always illiterate, the passing of knowlege by oral tradition was a skill they developed in ways we do not. Ancient greek bards purportedly were able to memorize and perform the entire Iliad and Odessey

It is one reason I believe that even though the Analects of Confucius was written hundreds of years after his death, I am willing to believe it likely contains a fairly accurate transcription of his maxims, sayings, and lessons.
 
Shel said:
Rich Republican Fake Christian Evangelical 's certainly think paying their taxes is a sin
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They are no worse the lying pieces of shit who masquerade as different personalities on this forum. Sock puppeteers seek to lie and deceive others. That's what Congress does. Both are equally deplorable, don't you think?

NSFW:
t15134.gif
I once asked Mason's mom "What's the difference between a tire and 365 used condoms?"
She said, "One's a Goodyear, the other is a great year."

Gawd she was so funny! Her son is just a retarded twit. I once asked if she dropped him on his head too many times, but she just looked sad and said "No, he was born that way."
 
Cypress said:
Scholars say that since people of antiquity were almost always illiterate, the passing of knowlege by oral tradition was a skill they developed in ways we do not. Ancient greek bards purportedly were able to memorize and perform the entire Iliad and Odessey

It is one reason I believe that even though the Analects of Confucius was written hundreds of years after his death, I am willing to believe it likely contains a fairly accurate transcription of his maxims, sayings, and lessons.
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They were able to remember oral tradition, but they also added to it. This is why myths tend to become more supernatural over time.
 
Cypress said:
Scholars say that since people of antiquity were almost always illiterate, the passing of knowlege by oral tradition was a skill they developed in ways we do not. Ancient greek bards purportedly were able to memorize and perform the entire Iliad and Odessey

It is one reason I believe that even though the Analects of Confucius was written hundreds of years after his death, I am willing to believe it likely contains a fairly accurate transcription of his maxims, sayings, and lessons.
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Agreed about oral tradition, but that's not a super power and it's subject to natural human limitations. In short, while I think the gist of what Jesus said was passed down and some of his best talks might be remembered accurately, the myth drawn around him to fit the David messiah is, IMO, subject to error.
 
StoneByStone said:
They were able to remember oral tradition, but they also added to it. This is why myths tend to become more supernatural over time.
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Yes, indeed. The job of the biblical scholar, Confucian scholar, or Vendic Brahmin scholar is to tease out and interpret the historicity of ancient literature from the embellishments.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed about oral tradition, but that's not a super power and it's subject to natural human limitations. In short, while I think the gist of what Jesus said was passed down and some of his best talks might be remembered accurately, the myth drawn around him to fit the David messiah is, IMO, subject to error.
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There is no question there is embellishment in the NT. The Gospels in chronological order made an attempt to place progressively more blame on the Jews for Jesus' execution. By the time one reads John, Pontius Pilate is blameless and practically trying to save Jesus from bloodthirsty Jewish mobs.


What I believe many people accept is that there is more than a kernel of historical accuracy in the NT, and the spiritual truths and insights therein speak for themselves, irrespective of anyone who wants to nit pick the historicity of a 2,000 year old collection of books
 
Cypress said:
Yes, indeed. The job of the biblical scholar, Confucian scholar, or Vendic Brahmin scholar is to tease out and interpret the historicity of ancient literature from the embellishments.
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Sure, "tease out and interpret", but if the people are illiterate, how do they interpret "ancient literature"? How come the earliest Christian writings different from when the Bible was assembled? As the link below demonstrates, most pre-Council of Nicaea Christian writings were scattershot and spread over 300 years. I'm not saying anyone lied or fabricated things, but after several years, it's a natural human trait to embellish or simply misconstrue verbal communications just like the game "telephone".

http://earlychristianwritings.com/
The purpose of this web site is to set out all of the Christian writings that are believed to have been written in the first and second centuries, as well as a few selected from the early third. I have also included non-Christian documents that may have special bearing on the study of early Christianity in order to make this web site a comprehensive sourcebook.
 
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