What kind of "Christian values" do Conservatives want?

Egg Shell said:
I was speaking of atheist self loathing
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Is that better or worse than liars and who bear false witness against others should feel about themselves?
Egg Shell said:
I would question if Jesus had existed,if the Holy Spirit hadn't come upon me and brought me to Jesus .
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If that were true then you'd have repented to both Christ and those whom your lies and false witnessing has harmed. Better or worse than malicious hypocrites?
 
StoneByStone said:
What religion were you born into?
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None!By Dad got thrown out of Catholic HS,so he never sent us to church.
On Halloween at Midnight ,I had an Epiphany of the Holy Spirit,and that was the beginning of years of Revelations.After about a year,I bought a Bible and saw the Holy Spirit was teaching me the Bible before I ever read it.
 
StoneByStone said:
Personally, I think Jesus existed as a regular person. But I don't think you have to "eschew reason" or be "driven by ego" in order to not believe he existed. We're talking about a guy whose life is barely recorded. If someone was to say Pope Francis doesn't exist, that would totally be eschewing reason. But a guy who lived two thousand years ago who we know almost nothing about, questioning his existence shouldn't be so uncommon.

I've seen people get mocked for being religious, as they should. We should have a society that shames people for choosing to believe lies, especially when those lies harm society. We mock people who believe vaccines cause autism or that the Earth is flat, why not people who believe in a god?
Again, this isn't eschewing reason or being driven by ego.
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The fact that you feel all religious people should be mocked speaks to the fact this issue for you is based on emotion not reason.

Virtually all reputable scholars of antiquity think the historical record supports the existence of a man known as Jesus of Nazareth.

The fact that you reject consensus scholarly expertise out of hand, and leap to your own conclusion that Jesus the man never existed -- and thus must have been a clever hoax perpetrated by a small group of 1st century peasants -- also speaks to the fact you approach this issue with an agenda based emotion, not reason
 
Egg Shell said:
None!By Dad got thrown out of Catholic HS,so he never sent us to church.
On Halloween at Midnight ,I had an Epiphany of the Holy Spirit,and that was the beginning of years of Revelations.After about a year,I bought a Bible and saw the Holy Spirit was teaching me the Bible before I ever read it.
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Well I don't know what you were going through at the time, but this sounds like a classic feels over reals situation. All emotion, no logic.
 
Cypress said:
The fact that you feel all religious people should be mocked speaks to the fact this issue for you is based on emotion not reason.
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How so? Public shaming is a good way to deter bad behavior, is it not?

Virtually all reputable scholars of antiquity think the historical record supports the existence of a man known as Jesus of Nazareth.

The fact that you reject consensus scholarly expertise out of hand, and leap to your own conclusion that Jesus the man never existed -- and thus must have been a clever hoax perpetrated by a small group of 1st century peasants -- also speaks to the fact you approach this issue with an agenda based emotion, not reason
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I said in my last comment that I believe Jesus of Nazareth existed. I'm just saying that thinking he didn't exist isn't that crazy. The are people who believe Socrates didn't exist because there is so little writings on his life. Not sure I agree with that either, but it's an understandable position.
 
StoneByStone said:
Well I don't know what you were going through at the time, but this sounds like a classic feels over reals situation. All emotion, no logic.
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You're write, "I don't know" ,that's all you have!
You have no answer for someone with no religious beliefs for 26years ,having a calling out of know where and from that moment on is filled with the Holy Spirit.
It's like I said before,it's a waste of time debating with atheist.Your mind is shut,and your spirit eyes are nailed shut.
 
Mr.Mason said:
You're write, "I don't know" ,that's all you have!
You have no answer for someone with no religious beliefs for 26years ,having a calling out of know where and from that moment on is filled with the Holy Spirit.
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Sure I do. Something in his life made him feel like he needed to believe in a god. It's not that complicated, even if it is sometimes caused by subconscious fear.

It's like I said before,it's a waste of time debating with atheist.Your mind is shut,and your spirit eyes are nailed shut.
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Give me evidence that a god exists.
 
Cypress said:
The fact that you feel all religious people should be mocked speaks to the fact this issue for you is based on emotion not reason.

Virtually all reputable scholars of antiquity think the historical record supports the existence of a man known as Jesus of Nazareth.

The fact that you reject consensus scholarly expertise out of hand, and leap to your own conclusion that Jesus the man never existed -- and thus must have been a clever hoax perpetrated by a small group of 1st century peasants -- also speaks to the fact you approach this issue with an agenda based emotion, not reason
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Agreed. Again, people like that are bad regardless of their beliefs. Too emotionally invested in asserting their beliefs over others.

Agreed on existence; the rest is debatable. :)

As pointed out earlier, militant atheists tend to be young, white, male and immature. Personally, I think people like Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (the latter is now dead) are just milking them for money like Ann Coulter does to RWNJs.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. Again, people like that are bad regardless of their beliefs. Too emotionally invested in asserting their beliefs over others.

Agreed on existence; the rest is debatable. :)

As pointed out earlier, militant atheists tend to be young, white, male and immature. Personally, I think people like Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (the latter is now dead) are just milking them for money like Ann Coulter does to RWNJs.
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I find agnostics are generally not emotionally invested in mocking all religious people as SBS admits she as an atheist subscribes to.

Ignorant bible thumpers deserve derision. But I would never be such a complete jerk to suggest all religious people should be mocked.

In some respects, atheism is an emotion- based quasi religion itself.
 
StoneByStone said:
How so? Public shaming is a good way to deter bad behavior, is it not?



I said in my last comment that I believe Jesus of Nazareth existed. I'm just saying that thinking he didn't exist isn't that crazy. The are people who believe Socrates didn't exist because there is so little writings on his life. Not sure I agree with that either, but it's an understandable position.
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You claim to be guided by reason and logic

But your religion of atheism leads you directly to decisions based on an emotion-driven agenda.

Even though virtually all reputable scholars of antiquity hold that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person, your emotional reaction was to be quick to disregard consensus expert opinion, and leap to the opinion that Jesus was a historical hoax; he never existed.

That is exactly what climate deniers do -- disregard the experts and substitute their own emotions in place of scholarly consensus.

I am afraid your Church of Atheism has drawn you off the path of reason and logic
 
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Cypress said:
I find agnostics are generally not emotionally invested in mocking all religious people as SBS admits she as an atheist subscribes to.

Ignorant bible thumpers deserve derision. But I would never be such a complete jerk to suggest all religious people should be mocked.

In some respects, atheism is an emotion- based quasi religion itself.
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Agreed on agnostics. For someone who truly "disbelieves", it's the most logical position since a person who is either pro or con is doing so base on faith. Militant Atheists believe there is no god based on faith since there's obviously zero evidence either way. All we know is the Universe spontaneously began and, according to latest theory, is likely to end in "The Big Chill" as a one-shot event.

I'm courteous to anyone pushing their beliefs upon me. A friendly "no thanks" and a little wave goodbye is all it has ever taken to shake them no matter where I've been.

Agreed on atheism. You were correct when you posted how atheists are "emotionally invested".
 
Cypress said:
You claim to be guided by reason and logic

But your religion of atheism leads you directly to decisions based on an emotion-driven agenda.

Even though virtually all reputable scholars of antiquity hold that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person, your emotional reaction was to utterly disregard consensus expert opinion, and leap to the opinion that Jesus was a historical hoax; he never existed.

That is exactly what climate deniers do -- disregard the experts and substitute their own emotions in place of scholarly consensus.

I am afraid your Church of Atheism has drawn you off the path of reason and logic
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Dude, come on. I already said twice that I believe Jesus of Nazareth existed.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on agnostics. For someone who truly "disbelieves", it's the most logical position since a person who is either pro or con is doing so base on faith. Militant Atheists believe there is no god based on faith since there's obviously zero evidence either way. All we know is the Universe spontaneously began and, according to latest theory, is likely to end in "The Big Chill" as a one-shot event.

I'm courteous to anyone pushing their beliefs upon me. A friendly "no thanks" and a little wave goodbye is all it has ever taken to shake them no matter where I've been.

Agreed on atheism. You were correct when you posted how atheists are "emotionally invested".
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Agnosticism makes sense and seems like a principled position to me, and is actually an expression of humility
 
Cypress said:
Okay, I thought you were, at a minimum, giving equal time to the proposition that the historical Jesus was a hoax perpetrated by some illiterate peasants of 1st century Galilee
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Well even if Jesus never existed, I think it would be extremely unlikely that he was a hoax. At most, I'd assume he was a fictional character that people later started believing in, like Hercules. I don't think Hercules was ever meant to be a hoax, either.
 
StoneByStone said:
Well even if Jesus never existed, I think it would be extremely unlikely that he was a hoax. At most, I'd assume he was a fictional character that people later started believing in, like Hercules. I don't think Hercules was ever meant to be a hoax, either.
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There was an oral tradition, and multiple independent written testimonies about the life of Jesus circulating in the Eastern Mediterranean in the decades immediately following Jesus' execution. The letters of Paul and the synoptic gospels of Mark, Mathew, and Luke being surviving examples.

It stains credulity that a massive hoax of this nature could have been pulled off with no one ever confessing to the hoax.

The small group of people who were purported to be in Jesus' ministry were illiterate peasants from northen Judea -- not exactly the type of people you would expect could pull off a history's most clever and remarkably successful hoax.
 
Cypress said:
There was an oral tradition, and multiple independent written testimonies about the life of Jesus circulating in the Eastern Mediterranean in the decades immediately following Jesus' execution. The letters of Paul and the synoptic gospels of Mark, Mathew, and Luke being surviving examples.

It stains credulity that a massive hoax of this nature could have been pulled off with no one ever confessing to the hoax.

The small group of people who were purported to be in Jesus' ministry were illiterate peasants from northen Judea -- not exactly the type of people you would expect could pull off a history's most clever and remarkably successful hoax.
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Why would they even attempt the hoax,to fool believers on JPP 2000years later!:palm:
 
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