What kind of "Christian values" do Conservatives want?

Crocodile said:
A lot of of them aren't real Christian values. When you hear some of them including guns you can't help but cringe. Here's the sad truth they have to understand. God doesn't back your guns or your American pride. Pride and objects that stand as an object of defiance to thou shall not kill, eh? Can the class tell us what the issue is here? A lot of them also have a pro-life schtick that's full of holes as they show on pretty much every life issue besides fetuses.
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The Bible does not say "thou shall not kill", that's a lazy translation, besides which the Bible mandates killing in many cases, and celebrates it in many others. The more accurate translation is "thou shalt not murder", or kill unlawfully. Self defense is quite lawful.

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rjhenn said:
Crocodile said:
A lot of of them aren't real Christian values. When you hear some of them including guns you can't help but cringe. Here's the sad truth they have to understand. God doesn't back your guns or your American pride. Pride and objects that stand as an object of defiance to thou shall not kill, eh? Can the class tell us what the issue is here? A lot of them also have a pro-life schtick that's full of holes as they show on pretty much every life issue besides fetuses.
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The Bible does not say "thou shall not kill", that's a lazy translation, besides which the Bible mandates killing in many cases, and celebrates it in many others. The more accurate translation is "thou shalt not murder", or kill unlawfully. Self defense is quite lawful.

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Agreed about "thou shalt not murder". Otherwise, we'd all starve due to an inability to kill plants and animals for food.....or as Alex Jones suggested, his neighbor's family for cannibalism.

A gun is just a tool. A person can murder with a well swung Bible but that doesn't mean the Bible is evil or wrong. It's just a book. It's the person wielding the book, tool or any other inanimate object who determines if it is used for good or bad.

I have a lot of guns. Many are just for collecting. None of the "ARs" have ever killed anyone. I have a couple of old bolt-action battle rifles that may have killed someone in war, but never while in my possession.
 
StoneByStone said:
The Right often talks about how things would be so great if America just embraced Christian valued like we supposedly did in the past. I know two Christian values they want to bring back are homophobia and a ban on abortion, but is that it? What else do you guys want to do to make America more Christian?
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I think, that the right's so called Christian value, is the right wing ideology that they propagate.
 
StoneByStone said:
They think guns and Capitalism are compatible with Christianity, but they don't claim that these things are Christian values.
That's what makes me so curious about what they mean when they say we need "Christian values." They never actually explain what those are. If they actually do mean guns and kicking people off food stamps, that just makes them even more ignorant of their own religion.
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Guns are simply the best way for innocent victims to defend themselves against violent criminals. Unfortunately most gun control laws only make things more difficult for the potential victims and easier for the criminals.

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Grumpy said:
Again you are tryin to put words in my mouth. Never said that! I repeat.

"I told you this subject is to complex to be debated here. I suggest you read this article and form at least a more informed opinion.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/"

If you want to argue, argue with the articles authors.
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It sounds like you can't defend your statement, so you're just saying it's too complex.

What's the real reason for your homophobia?
 
Dark Soul said:
I've forced you into ad hom mode, now that I've destroyed your position.
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How was that an ad hom? I didn't insult you. You referenced yourself, so I granted you what you said.

You in no way explained how I was wrong about the Republicans being forced to accept gay marriage due to the public accepting it.
 
StoneByStone said:
As I explained in this thread, I don't know what these "Christian values" actually are outside of homophobia and banning abortion. Though I do think laws should be secular and based on logic, not religion.

If homosexuality is genetic, how is it not natural?

When exactly does life begin and why at that point?
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Life doesn't "begin". Both the egg and the sperm are alive. Life is passed along, continuously.

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Cypress said:
I do not think message board fake Christians actually genuinely know that much about Christian theology and Christian history. Usually the most insightful posts about Christian theology and history come from liberal agnostics.

My impression of message board fake Christians is that they see the church as a social club; an adornment comprised of like minded people. Rightwingers are not known for individuality and unconventionality, and this probably explains their need to belong to clubs where they receive validation from like minded fellow travellers
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Quite insightful.

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rjhenn said:
Life doesn't "begin". Both the egg and the sperm are alive. Life is passed along, continuously.

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Agreed, but the anti-American authoritarian Right always claims "life begins at conception". False, as you point out, but it's what they claim.
 
StoneByStone said:
I mean in the political sphere. I'm sure there are some churches that still preach against premarital sex, some of them maybe even for males too. But there is no push among politicians to regulate premarital sex like there is for homosexuality. Christians believe that atonement for sin is a private issue, except when it comes to the gays and all their gayness.
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And abortion as well. I had a priest tell me once that if a woman had an abortion it didn't matter how much she repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness; it was a forever sin that could never be erased from her permanent record.

I am no longer Catholic. lol
 
christiefan915 said:
"The simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we do not have love for them in the first place. To label someone a “sinner” is to imply that they are outside of God’s grace and unless they clean up their act, cannot be forgiven.

To label someone a “sinner” reveals an “us vs. them” mentality, where you are the “righteous” person looking down your nose at the poor, wretched, ignorant “sinners” down below who just cannot get their act together. If only they would listen to what you tell them to do…"
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Precisely. Some Xtians try to mitigate this by saying "We're all sinners." Um, isn't that up to their god to decide and judge?
 
WitoldPilecki said:
Cancer, Heart disease, Schizophrenia, Lou Gehrig's disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Diabetes, Bi Polar Disorder, all occur naturally too.

But, do we throw pride parades for those?
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Atheists should throw parades for all of those. All are evidence that God, if He does exist, doesn't love us.

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ThatOwlWoman said:
Unfortunately Bobb is not alone. We have quite a few faux-Christian haters around here. PiMP, Stench, Toxic, RB for starters.
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Most of whom are on my ignore list, so I don't see them stinking up the place unless someone else quotes them.

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ThatOwlWoman said:
And abortion as well. I had a priest tell me once that if a woman had an abortion it didn't matter how much she repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness; it was a forever sin that could never be erased from her permanent record.

I am no longer Catholic. lol
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I love that he used the term "permanent record" like we're still in high school.
 
StoneByStone said:
Look at it like this. There was no internet porn in ancient times. However, because Judaism, Christianity, and Islam teach that lust and masturbation are sins, we can logically deduce that internet porn is a sin in these religions.
So while guns weren't around in Biblical times, we know Jesus would be against owning a gun because its use is for something he considered a sin.
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Jesus considered self defense a sin?

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rjhenn said:
Guns are simply the best way for innocent victims to defend themselves against violent criminals. Unfortunately most gun control laws only make things more difficult for the potential victims and easier for the criminals.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with owning a gun, but I'm not Christian.
If you are Christian, then you should refuse to own a gun.
 
StoneByStone said:
It sounds like you can't defend your statement, so you're just saying it's too complex.

What's the real reason for your homophobia?
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Greater minds than you haven't completely answered the question but you want to break a very complex question into a one sentence answer.

You call me a homophobe does that mean you are gay. Because you won't admit sexual orientation is more complex than just a simple gene. See it works both ways.
 
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