"A Republic, if you can keep it."

[ThatOwlWoman]

Even with a record turnout of 66.7%, I think the answer is found in the third of Americans who didn't bother to vote.

Off hand one thing that Trump emphasized but didn't invent government sleaze. He one-upped Hillary on cronyism, filling the swamp with more gators and sowing government distrust among voters.

Politicians have spent decades telling voters their own government is screwing them. It appears at least a third of them believe nothing can be done about it.

"A Republic... if you can keep it" is a good title.

A lot of us DO want reform and that's why so many voted for the Toadstool the first time, believing the TV game show host/circus barker's promises. But instead they got an incompetent and corrupt fool who merely kicked the Lego castle over and stomped on the pieces. He built nothing new or better, he merely destroyed like Godzilla in Tokyo. I have a feeling that the second time around, the number of voters that voted for him again were voting more against a mediocre (D) candidate than they were in support of all the non-existent policies of #LOSER45.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

apathy. too many people don't see a positive benefit to them voting, or they feel that as long as they are at least working and providing a basic living for their family, whoever is currently doing the job is good enough

Yep.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

officers boss around, staff NCOs lead

You hate Chesty Puller, Mad Dog Mattis, Pappy Boyington, Presley O'Bannon and every Marine Corps officer who ever lived. I get it but disagree.

Were you in long enough to earn being a staff NCO? How long did you lead Marines as a staff NCO?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

capitalism has always been a risk/reward setup and it always should be. The idea of the whole social safety net was pioneered by rich people who didn't want to lose based on their risk, only reward..........with very little trickle down effect to the people doing the labor.........tag that along with all the hurdles one has to jump to get started in business of their own (insert lame 'excuses' statement here) and you don't have capitalism, you have corruption and crony capitalism. It's a small club and you ain't in it.

Dude, that's at warped a POV as your view that Marine officers are worthless and unnecessary.

It's funny to see you undermine the whole Trickle Down theory since I actually agree with you there. It doesn't work.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Agreed there is a lot of hate fueled by both parties, but I'm not sure what you mean about "democracy, where majority rules, is not what American was/is supposed to be". Majority does rule, but is limited by the Constitution.

and liberals want to do away with that limitation. they believe they know whats best for everyone.

The Republicans are no better with their ideology of controlling people by banning drugs, abortions and gay marriage.

complete agreement

 

[SmarterthanYou]

As in "We, the People of the United States"? What about it?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

can it be both ways? can we not trust government because we are the government?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You hate Chesty Puller, Mad Dog Mattis, Pappy Boyington, Presley O'Bannon and every Marine Corps officer who ever lived. I get it but disagree.

I never had the good fortune to serve for chesty, or mattis, or pappy........in my 6 years I had two great Commanding Officers, one awesome unit commander, and one good 2nd LT.........until my last unit. When I NEEDED leadership and assistance, they failed and bailed

Were you in long enough to earn being a staff NCO? How long did you lead Marines as a staff NCO?

never made it past E-4............but in all my 6 years, I only met two awful Staff NCOs, several average, but the rest of them were top notch leaders

 

[Dutch Uncle]

"A Republic... if you can keep it" is a good title.

A lot of us DO want reform and that's why so many voted for the Toadstool the first time, believing the TV game show host/circus barker's promises. But instead they got an incompetent and corrupt fool who merely kicked the Lego castle over and stomped on the pieces. He built nothing new or better, he merely destroyed like Godzilla in Tokyo. I have a feeling that the second time around, the number of voters that voted for him again were voting more against a mediocre (D) candidate than they were in support of all the non-existent policies of #LOSER45.

Thanks. I give full credit to one of my heroes, Benjamin Franklin.....and not just because he's on the hundred dollar bill.

The dynamics of every American presidential election are worth study, but I think the wrong lessons of the 2016 are often misunderstood. Like the 2020 election, I think there was a lot of votes against a particular nominee compared to all those who voted for a nominee.

Both parties seem anxious to race to the bottom....and the Republicans have hit bottom first. I'm curious to see what happens over the next four years.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Agreed but anyone who thinks that's purely one-sided is fooling themselves.

Biden would not be what he is without big banks. He was instrumental in killing the idea of eliminating student debt through bankruptcy. The super-rich like Trump can wipe out millions in debt through bankruptcy, but somebody who takes on more student debt than they can ever repay is burdened for life, consigned to poverty. Thanks, Joe. Yes, I know what we voted for. And I think most do, too, which is why nobody got excited for him. And that may be a good thing for the USA right now. Certainly it is an improvement, sorry to say. There's a reason so many banks are incorporated in Maryland.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I never had the good fortune to serve for chesty, or mattis, or pappy........in my 6 years I had two great Commanding Officers, one awesome unit commander, and one good 2nd LT.........until my last unit. When I NEEDED leadership and assistance, they failed and bailed

never made it past E-4............but in all my 6 years, I only met two awful Staff NCOs, several average, but the rest of them were top notch leaders

That seems quite a far cry from your earlier complaints.

You seem to be mixing "meeting" with serving under. In six years, you'd likely serve under three COs, three XOs, three Sergeant Majors and a similar number of staff NCOs....unless your staff NCOs kept recommending you to be bounced over to become someone else's problem. Then, of course, you'd see a lot more of them, all increasingly worse. You know, the whole "get rid of the shitbirds" concept.

A concept I eventually learned to disagree with since it didn't serve the Marine Corps best interests. Better, and more responsible, for the Marine Corps to fix the problem or remove it from the service. Just passing it along to someone else is a Navy solution, not a Marine Corps one.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You seem to be mixing "meeting" with serving under.

if you include 'meeting' an officer with no professional interaction other than to salute and say 'good morning, sir' as the sign of a good officer, your standards might be a bit lax. I met many officers, had unit interactions with maybe a couple dozen, from CO on down to unit leaders. That all said, my statement still stands

In six years, you'd likely serve under three COs, three XOs, three Sergeant Majors and a similar number of staff NCOs....unless your staff NCOs kept recommending you to be bounced over to become someone else's problem. Then, of course, you'd see a lot more of them, all increasingly worse. You know, the whole "get rid of the shitbirds" concept.

A concept I eventually learned to disagree with since it didn't serve the Marine Corps best interests. Better, and more responsible, for the Marine Corps to fix the problem or remove it from the service. Just passing it along to someone else is a Navy solution, not a Marine Corps one.

all but one of my staff NCOs worked hard to help me............every officer in my last unit, again, failed and bailed. That transpired because one of the officers was a SGT in my previous station. He'd gone on to OCS came back a 2nd LT...........he told the other junior officers I wasn't worth fixing, so they admin'd me out. Now, if my life had ended with me in prison or homeless addict, maybe they'd have done the right thing.........that didn't happen. I'm a successful husband and father, so in my mind, they failed and bailed. I get that I shouldn't take a small slice of the officer corps and apply it to all.......generalizations tend to show up as failures in reality. I'm simply speaking based on my own experience.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



Biden would not be what he is without big banks. He was instrumental in killing the idea of eliminating student debt through bankruptcy. The super-rich like Trump can wipe out millions in debt through bankruptcy, but somebody who takes on more student debt than they can ever repay is burdened for life, consigned to poverty. Thanks, Joe. Yes, I know what we voted for. And I think most do, too, which is why nobody got excited for him. And that may be a good thing for the USA right now. Certainly it is an improvement, sorry to say. There's a reason so many banks are incorporated in Maryland.

A lot of that goes to culture. American values. Too many people value avarice over morality. Too many people are pushing for self-gratification instead of doing what's best for America. Too many people are willing to walk all over others in a quest for taking care of #1.

One of my favorite sayings is “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.”

Nowadays, we just buy a chinese-made canopy; movable, replaceable and doesn't need nurturing. As Pogo once famously said, "We've met the enemy and he is us".

 

[Dutch Uncle]

if you include 'meeting' an officer with no professional interaction other than to salute and say 'good morning, sir' as the sign of a good officer, your standards might be a bit lax. I met many officers, had unit interactions with maybe a couple dozen, from CO on down to unit leaders. That all said, my statement still stands



all but one of my staff NCOs worked hard to help me............every officer in my last unit, again, failed and bailed. That transpired because one of the officers was a SGT in my previous station. He'd gone on to OCS came back a 2nd LT...........he told the other junior officers I wasn't worth fixing, so they admin'd me out. Now, if my life had ended with me in prison or homeless addict, maybe they'd have done the right thing.........that didn't happen. I'm a successful husband and father, so in my mind, they failed and bailed. I get that I shouldn't take a small slice of the officer corps and apply it to all.......generalizations tend to show up as failures in reality. I'm simply speaking based on my own experience.

No, but it doesn't surprise me you'd assume so.

Why do you consider joining a militia and seeking to overthrow the US government to be in line with "a successful husband and father"? BTW, people can change for the better or for the worse.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...-reasons-we-ll-have-another-domestic-conflict

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello ThatOwlWoman,

There is no will to do anything, either, about campaign finance reform. In 2010, I worked with this guy's campaign. He ran against Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin. He refused to take either private or party donations, and later wrote a book about the experience. He ran again in 2014 but didn't win that time, either.

https://www.amazon.com/Unlikely-Candidate-Reflections-Run-Congress/dp/0982980264

Any ideas why voters aren't interested in cleaning up how we pay for political campaigns?

Wish more people would do what he did. And you never know when one of those campaigns is going to catch fire. Joe Biden did pretty much the same thing when he was 29 years old, his campaign did 'find the magic,' and became the youngest Senator.

There is a very big reason why voters don't think we can clean up the big money in politics. Apathy. They just don't believe.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

apathy. too many people don't see a positive benefit to them voting, or they feel that as long as they are at least working and providing a basic living for their family, whoever is currently doing the job is good enough

How do you fix apathy?

While true, comparing a combat situation with a domestic squabble won't produce optimal outcomes. That's how successful husbands and fathers end up murdering their entire families before shooting themselves in the head.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

No, but it doesn't surprise me you'd assume so.

I said IF you do, not THAT you do.........important distinction

Why do you consider joining a militia and seeking to overthrow the US government to be in line with "a successful husband and father"? BTW, people can change for the better or for the worse.

for all your posturing and accusations of asshat being legion, you sure do post alot like him as well................and, not that you're inclined to believe anything other than what you want to believe, i'm not out to overthrow the constitution, just the men who pervert it.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello ThatOwlWoman,

"A Republic... if you can keep it" is a good title.

A lot of us DO want reform and that's why so many voted for the Toadstool the first time, believing the TV game show host/circus barker's promises. But instead they got an incompetent and corrupt fool who merely kicked the Lego castle over and stomped on the pieces. He built nothing new or better, he merely destroyed like Godzilla in Tokyo. I have a feeling that the second time around, the number of voters that voted for him again were voting more against a mediocre (D) candidate than they were in support of all the non-existent policies of #LOSER45.

Part of that also has to do with saving face. They committed to him. If they change their minds, they have to admit they were wrong. There's a lot of people who are just too insecure to do that.

Imagine all the people in this country who would benefit from a little mental health counseling - but they will never get it because their ego tells them there is a stigma associated with it. Many many more would also benefit, but it's just out of the question because they can't afford it. In America, the number one provider of mental health counseling is the prison system. And that is a national failure. We could have so much finer a country if the stigma vanished, and such services were part of a National Health Service.

Of course, Trump could easily afford the finest mental health counseling, and seriously needs extensive treatment, but he won't get it for reason (A).

 

[SmarterthanYou]

How do you fix apathy?

While true, comparing a combat situation with a domestic squabble won't produce optimal outcomes. That's how successful husbands and fathers end up murdering their entire families before shooting themselves in the head.

you can only 'wake' so many people up......or so little people, as the case seems to be............the battle between democrats and republicans is way more than some domestic squabble. both sides seek to destroy the constitution, each in their own ways and ideals. That being the case, I consider members of both parties enemies of the USA and the constitution

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I said IF you do, not THAT you do.........important distinction

for all your posturing and accusations of asshat being legion, you sure do post alot like him as well................and, not that you're inclined to believe anything other than what you want to believe, i'm not out to overthrow the constitution, just the men who pervert it.

True, but you've been declaring your hatred for all Marine Officers for several posts now. It's not rocket science to see you are assuming a lot of things about people and how things work. Your personality is colored by your bitterness at failing to make E-5, the standard rank for someone after five years. Sure, some people may have failed you, but you never once took any responsibility for your own actions. It's always someone else's fault. That right there is enough to explain why you failed to make Sergeant.

Why do you think I post like Legion/Asshat?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

you can only 'wake' so many people up......or so little people, as the case seems to be............the battle between democrats and republicans is way more than some domestic squabble. both sides seek to destroy the constitution, each in their own ways and ideals. That being the case, I consider members of both parties enemies of the USA and the constitution

How do you plan to "wake" people up? Kidnap the Governor of Michigan and shoot down anyone who gets in your way?

Yes, I'm not happy with either party either, but I'm not advocating overthrowing the government by suspending the Constitution and mandating martial law across the land.