Those are political issues. You are trying to say abortion is not ethical.
A woman's basic right over her body doesn't "belong w/ the states"
- Thread starter BartenderElite
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Obtenebrator
Verified User
As do most people. But accidents happen.
I suppose that people should be willing to pay for the rest of their lives (or even WITH their lives) for mistakes and accidents, it just doesn't seem like we should make that a "goal" here in the US.
I also get that to a lot of people abortion looks like murder. But it is and always will be a special case. It is the only time at which one life is required to bring another into the world. Without the mother the fetus could not survive. WIthout her body the fetus is literally just a clump of cells. Left on a table it dies quickly.
As such the question of who has primacy has to be addressed rationally. The fetus is incapable of existing outside of the woman which means it is HER BODY and HER'S alone that will have to bear this. Not even the guy who inseminated her.
For those people who see the fetus as secondary to the fully-formed adult woman and for whom the WOMAN INVOLVED is the ONLY person who has a say on what happens, then there is only one choice.
And the GREAT THING ABOUT THAT is that it DOESN'T IMPACT YOUR LIFE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. You are free to live as you like. And the added bonus is YOU WILL NEVER BE FORCED TO HAVE AN ABORTION.
I guess if more Pro-Lifers would actually vote for improved welfare and expanded assistance for single mothers, etc. I might actually believe that they care about "life" per se. It sorta feels to me like the Pro-Life cares about the unborn right up until they are born at which point they are on their own.
ExpressLane
Verified User
She sent me unconsolidated naked pictures of her self . I threw them away and the dog got them out of the trash. I'm going to miss that dog.
Obtenebrator
Verified User
This "illegal alien as murderer" talking point is quite interesting. It does sound like there have been a couple of cases where an undocumented person killed an American.
Of course it is NOT common. And in fact Undocumented Aliens tend to be MORE law abiding on average than the average American is. And, we, BY CHOICE, have the highest rate of gun homicides on the planet.
So forgive me if I see Americans as sitting on a pile of dead bodies and screaming about the evils of a couple of undocumented aliens killing someone.
No killing is good. But given that we as a nation WORSHIP the gun and killing, it comes across as a bit disingenuous.
Especially when it's so obvious that this is just a way to make a scapegoat. We saw how it played out in the 30's. It wasn't good. Please don't start us down that path.
NakedHunterBiden
“It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown”
Nobody is sending you nudes. Thanks for the laugh incel.She sent me unconsolidated naked pictures of her self . I threw them away and the dog got them out of the trash. I'm going to miss that dog.
Said the Wincel.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
bullshit, fucking liberal idiot.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
like the woman deciding to keep it against his will and her forcing child support?
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Whatever, virtue-signaling dumbass Vicky.
Obtenebrator
Verified User
Said the Wincel.
What's a "Wincel"?
Oh, wait, I think I know. It's what an incel calls a woman because he knows that being an "incel" is bad and he wants to say bad things about a woman, but he's too angry at all women for not giving him the sex he so "deserves" that he can't come up with anything clever. So he just slaps a "W" on incel.
Is that it?
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Wow, she sure brought out YOUR impotent inner Incel. Sounds like no one wants YOUR body or any of that tiny protuberance. lol
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
No, he's a low-IQ troll.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win
Not all religions oppose abortion
For decades, the Christian religious right’s opposition to abortion has dominated the reproductive rights debate in the United States. Activists spent years pushing states and the federal government toward more restrictive policies; those efforts culminated in the Supreme Court’s decision overturning the constitutionally protected right to an abortion.
But Christians aren’t the only people of faith with deeply held religious convictions regarding reproductive rights. Judaism not only teaches that abortion is permitted, but compels Jewish faith leaders to fight for reproductive rights, says Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, an author, scholar in residence for the National Council of Jewish Women, and creator of Rabbis for Repro, a national network of Jewish clergy working to support reproductive rights in their communities and on a national level.
The argument Ruttenberg and other rabbis are making has important implications for the law. If Judaism teaches that abortions are necessary, then laws denying the right to an abortion infringe upon the religious freedoms of Jewish people to have them. In Florida, one rabbi, Barry Silver of L’Dor Va-Dor in Palm Beach County, is suing the state to block a new 15-week abortion ban from going into effect, arguing that the proposed rule restricts religious freedom and amounts to “theocratic tyranny.” (A judge announced he would temporarily block the new law, one day before it was set to take effect, in response to a separate lawsuit.) In Israel, officials announced new policies meant to ease abortion access in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision.
The fetus is an extension of the pregnant person until birth. It’s like that old slogan “my body, my choice”: it is literally her body!
Not all religions oppose abortion
The religious right led the opposition to abortion. Other faith leaders feel differently.
www.vox.com
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Did you know that most, if not all, states mandate that if a single low-income mom applies for any sort of public assistance -- food stamps, Medicaid, rent help, monthly cash allotment -- it is mandated that she name the father so that the state can go after him to recoup what the taxpayers are spending to help her and the child? Think about that for a bit.
ExpressLane
Verified User
Yes they do but we are supposed to be responsible. With the forms of BC available today accidents should be very rare if people are responsible.
No let's just make the innocent HUMAN pay with their life
930,160 accidents seems like a lot of people are acting responsibly. And the last time I checked it takes TWO lives to bring a child into this world. As I said women have the CHOICE to have sex or not. Once the decision is made the mother and woman and the man that CHOSE to have sex should be responsible for their actions. Someone should not have you sacrifice their life for the actions of the parents as long as both partners had free choice. And if it is the choice between the mother's life and the life of the baby everyone has the right to defend their own life. So the mother has the choice. Once the baby is in the world the mother has the choice of keeping the baby or adoption. If the mother chooses to keep the kid the father is on the hook to help raise it. I would be very hard on dead beat dads.
There are a lot of people in this world that require others in order to live. We don't kill them.
A woman is inconvenienced for a few months and she had a choice in the matter. A dead baby is forever and they have no choice..
My brother in law got his GF pregnant. He did not want to get married. His GF STRONGLY considered an abortion (Divorced mother of 1). We told her if she had the baby we would adopt it as our own. She decided to have the baby and she decided to raise her. We always paid her day care and gave her mom a monthly check. We took the child (a girl on vacations) bought her cloths. We sent her to dental hygienist school. (I get great dental care). She is now 38 with two kids and a engineer husband. (He went dove hunting yesterday and found a very cool Indian arrow head BTW)
You would be very surprised at how many pro lifer's are very active with adoption etc. My anesthesia trainer was adopted from a 15 year old Canadian mother that chose life. He is a GREAT guy and a very good doctor. He is the one that turned my on to helping the Gladney Home. He provides his service free too. Don't pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you are the only one that cares about moms because you are not. In fact our church also helps out.
BartenderElite
Verified User
So, that's one guy, and your church. You said it would be surprising "how many" are very active w/ adoption and the rest. Do you have any actual statistics on that?
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win
Jewish law prioritizes the life of the pregnant mother over the life of the fetus such that where the pregnancy critically endangers the physical health or mental health of the mother, an abortion may be authorized, if not mandated, by Halacha (Jewish law) and should be available to all women irrespective of their economic status. Legislation and court rulings-federally or in any state-that absolutely ban abortion without regard for the health of the mother would literally limit our ability to live our lives in accordance with our responsibility to preserve life.Not all religions oppose abortion
For decades, the Christian religious right’s opposition to abortion has dominated the reproductive rights debate in the United States. Activists spent years pushing states and the federal government toward more restrictive policies; those efforts culminated in the Supreme Court’s decision overturning the constitutionally protected right to an abortion.
But Christians aren’t the only people of faith with deeply held religious convictions regarding reproductive rights. Judaism not only teaches that abortion is permitted, but compels Jewish faith leaders to fight for reproductive rights, says Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, an author, scholar in residence for the National Council of Jewish Women, and creator of Rabbis for Repro, a national network of Jewish clergy working to support reproductive rights in their communities and on a national level.
The argument Ruttenberg and other rabbis are making has important implications for the law. If Judaism teaches that abortions are necessary, then laws denying the right to an abortion infringe upon the religious freedoms of Jewish people to have them. In Florida, one rabbi, Barry Silver of L’Dor Va-Dor in Palm Beach County, is suing the state to block a new 15-week abortion ban from going into effect, arguing that the proposed rule restricts religious freedom and amounts to “theocratic tyranny.” (A judge announced he would temporarily block the new law, one day before it was set to take effect, in response to a separate lawsuit.) In Israel, officials announced new policies meant to ease abortion access in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision.
The fetus is an extension of the pregnant person until birth. It’s like that old slogan “my body, my choice”: it is literally her body!
Not all religions oppose abortion
The religious right led the opposition to abortion. Other faith leaders feel differently.
Opposition to abortion and women’s reproductive care primarily grew out of and continues to be fueled by a particular Christian theology that defines life as beginning from conception and abortion as murder.
Judaism has a different view: Life begins at birth, and abortion is required when necessary to save a woman’s life and is permitted to protect her physical and mental health.
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