Abortion: wrong or just sort of wrong?

Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Keep me out of your homoerotic fantasies. You are definitely going back on ignore now, ila.
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The more I read of American rightists, the more it seems likely that they are ALL repressed or closetted homosexuals. Pity they can't get out into the world and form decent relationships to replace all that tedious spite.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
interesting how the only ones on here who want to tell unborn children they are totally screwed are liberals.........
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if unborn developing fetuses were, in any way, sentient, maybe they'd be able to hear something.

It IS interesting that there are very few anti-abortion females on the internet.... I suppose that's because the women that are told by their husbands that they feel that way are always barefoot and pregnant and too busy around the house to ever voice that opinion - if it really is theirs - on the world wide webz.
 
maineman said:
if unborn developing fetuses were, in any way, sentient, maybe they'd be able to hear something.

It IS interesting that there are very few anti-abortion females on the internet.... I suppose that's because the women that are told by their husbands that they feel that way are always barefoot and pregnant and too busy around the house to ever voice that opinion - if it really is theirs - on the world wide webz.
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/shrugs....except the fact we only have four liberal women on this board does not mean there are very few anti-abortion females on the internet.....in truth, polls show that women are equally split on abortion, 47-47 if I recall correctly......
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Yes, just as the dna in a liver cell, haploid or USF's bone differentiates the species of origin. None of those things are fully human or a gorilla. Arguing that humans are more than dna is not fallacious.

The zygote is a result of conception. At implantation the embryo has progressed to blastocyst. Frankly, I think that is a much more defensible position for pro lifers but it is not the one commonly argued.
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The DNA of liver, no matter the conditions provided it, will ever be a unique individual. The DNA of the Han Zygote already is established as a unique being, albeit at its earliest stage of development.

I agree that implantation is the true benchmark for the abortion argument.
 
This thread and the 1,000+ others like it are really indicative of how dug in people are in their positions. Abortion debates never change anyone's mind.

Roe, to me, is a great decision - it's the only kind of compromise that works. Women have the 1st trimester to make a decision; they are not sentenced to carry a fetus to term from the moment of conception. After that, right-to-life arguments win the day.

Here's hoping it never gets overturned.
 
XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
The DNA of liver, no matter the conditions provided it, will ever be a unique individual. The DNA of the Han Zygote already is established as a unique being, albeit at its earliest stage of development.

I agree that implantation is the true benchmark for the abortion argument.
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Not true. It is possible to take the dna from a liver and make a unique human. The potential to become human does not make something human.

I did not say implantation was the true benchmark. I said it's a more defensible position. It is quite absurd to argue that life begins at conception when the majority will fail to ever even implant. For some women implantation is not possible while conception is. Even many of the blastocyst that implant will quickly be aborted naturally, either because they are not fit or due to bad signaling.

Frankly, I don't see how the religious square the idea that life begins at conception with the notion of a just God. That's why the Catholic church used to argue that it begins with the quickening and many other religions still do.
 
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Thing1 said:
This thread and the 1,000+ others like it are really indicative of how dug in people are in their positions. Abortion debates never change anyone's mind.

Roe, to me, is a great decision - it's the only kind of compromise that works. Women have the 1st trimester to make a decision; they are not sentenced to carry a fetus to term from the moment of conception. After that, right-to-life arguments win the day.

Here's hoping it never gets overturned.
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I don't much care about changing minds but some can be swayed. I used to avoid the argument, but I am tired of hearing frauds like Damo and SF claim their position is backed by science. The fields of science give us terms that are unclear, ambiguous and imperfect. They argue, debate and struggle with the definitions of life, organism and even classing species among themselves. Those terms don't apply to or work at all in the legal and medical context. The notion that life begins at conception fails simple real world tests and that is what science is about, not abstract semantic arguments. Neither Darwin nor Einstein are famous for their dictionaries.

The vast majority of abortions fall well within the first term and so the pro life zealots won't ever settle for that. Many of them don't care about zygotes, they just want to deny women the right to control their own bodies because they hope the fear of pregnancy will encourage chastity. If they were really concerned then they would focus on contraception.
 
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Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Why are you so afraid to offer another argument to counter my point? There is no way you could do any worse than your stupid cake analogy.
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If I'm so stupid; then take my challenge, prove me wrong, and I'll take a self-imposed 30 day ban.
Take the challenge, biatch.
Don't be sceeeeeeeeeeeered.
 
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Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Keep me out of your homoerotic fantasies. You are definitely going back on ignore now, ila.
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HA HA HA HA HA

I throw an insult back in Ice Dancer's face and Hasa gets all upset and after being to much of a biatch, to take me up on my challenge, he gets scared and puts me on IA.
After of course, making a disparaging remark about homosexuals.
 
Thing1 said:
This thread and the 1,000+ others like it are really indicative of how dug in people are in their positions. Abortion debates never change anyone's mind.

Roe, to me, is a great decision - it's the only kind of compromise that works. Women have the 1st trimester to make a decision; they are not sentenced to carry a fetus to term from the moment of conception. After that, right-to-life arguments win the day.

Here's hoping it never gets overturned.
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Back in the Nineteenth Century everyone was against birth control: something changed their minds then, as something is changing minds now. Bullyboys then tried to frighten everyone, but everyone suddenly realised that unwanted babies were a bad thing. It is still so: those who force people to be born and live in this ghastly shit are the ultimate swine!
 
iolo said:
The more I read of American rightists, the more it seems likely that they are ALL repressed or closetted homosexuals. Pity they can't get out into the world and form decent relationships to replace all that tedious spite.
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Whereas in Wales, you just take it out on the sheep.
 
iolo said:
Back in the Nineteenth Century everyone was against birth control: something changed their minds then, as something is changing minds now. Bullyboys then tried to frighten everyone, but everyone suddenly realised that unwanted babies were a bad thing. It is still so: those who force people to be born and live in this ghastly shit are the ultimate swine!
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True. Personally, I'm pro choice, but I can't say that it's been an easy decision to arrive at. I do think there is a lot of gray area, and at a certain point, a fetus does become a "life" that should have some rights.

However, I'll never get past the idea that there is no way some old dude like PMP should sit there and condemn a woman to carry a fetus to term, simply because she got pregnant. If society ever concurs with that view and it's reflected in the law, it will be a dark, dark day for humanity. It would be like going back in time 1,000 years.
 
Thing1 said:
True. Personally, I'm pro choice, but I can't say that it's been an easy decision to arrive at. I do think there is a lot of gray area, and at a certain point, a fetus does become a "life" that should have some rights.

However, I'll never get past the idea that there is no way some old dude like PMP should sit there and condemn a woman to carry a fetus to term, simply because she got pregnant. If society ever concurs with that view and it's reflected in the law, it will be a dark, dark day for humanity. It would be like going back in time 1,000 years.
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Yes. Personally I don't like abortion at all, but what else do we do?
 
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