Abortion: wrong or just sort of wrong?

Sun Devil said:
Explain how it's murder...How is early fetal termination any different than a man jerking off until he ejaculates? What about the millions of sperm cells with the "potential" to be something that die?
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This too must be a joke. How is eating an unfertilized chicken egg different from eating a chicken? It isn't an organism, it is simply an egg. Ejaculating sperm is not the same thing as killing humans, every sperm is not a developing and living human organism, while science texts define even the zygote as a developing living human organism.

The term fetus covers a developing human from 9 weeks of pregnancy until birth. Would you say there was a difference in "fetal termination" (killing offspring) if it were done at 8 weeks as opposed to 38 weeks? How about 10?

Did you bother reading the link? It was interesting.

It begins with why people use different terminology when speaking on this topic:

A major aspect of the debate over abortion concerns the use of terminology. In keeping with Just Facts' Standards of Credibility, this research uses language that is clear and precise. Thus, phrases such as "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are replaced by words that articulate specific positions.


Perhaps the largest point of contention involving terminology is the label applied to what or who is being aborted. Those who think abortion should be generally illegal often use the terms "unborn child" and "unborn baby." According to Webster's College Dictionary and Black's Medical Dictionary, the word "child" can apply prior to birth,[1] [2] but both of these sources employ the word "baby" only from the point of birth onwards.[3] [4] In contrast, those who think abortion should be generally legal often use the word "fetus," a clinical term derived from a Latin word meaning "offspring" or "newly delivered."[5] As explained by Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, a fetus is the unborn offspring in the postembryonic period, after major structures have been outlined, in humans from nine weeks after fertilization until birth.[6]
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It's important we use terminology that is clearly defined. Before you start this argument tell me what you mean by "fetal", and what you mean by "potential"...
 
Sun Devil said:
That is my point. Masturbation and the "wasting" of living organisms can be arguably and equally as wrong as copulating and later aborting a 4 week old fetus.
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well yeah, you could say that.........if you ignorant of biology and don't care how stupid you sound.......
 
Damocles said:
This too must be a joke. How is eating an unfertilized chicken egg different from eating a chicken? It isn't an organism, it is simply an egg. Ejaculating sperm is not the same thing as killing humans, every sperm is not a developing human organism. The term fetus covers a developing human from 9 weeks of pregnancy until birth. Would you say there was a difference in "fetal termination" (killing offspring) if it were done at 8 weeks as opposed to 38 weeks? How about 10?

Did you bother reading the link? It was interesting.
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I read the link and it's the same conservative spin.

As I said I'm of the school of thought that a lot of what we base life one such as pleasure and pain is based on sentience. The comparison of living organisms to a potential human was exactly my point. What are you killing? A clump of cells. Similarly when I masturbate and ejaculate, what am I killing, living cells. I'm not going to sit here and determine what a woman should do with her body. A woman's life and her decision trumps what a fetus "may want" if such a phrase exists.
 
Sun Devil said:
I see your point but there are instances where children are born into aweful conditions which we would conclude that it would've been best they weren't born.
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we should kill children when we find them living like that....its what liberals would do to make children happy......
 
Teflon Don said:
Ironically the majority of abortions are in minority neighborhoods. Devil boy must like that
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Just like any prejudiced idiot, making this about race...Go somewhere and sit down because obviously you like other conservative idiots cannot argue your point.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
we should kill children when we find them living like that....its what liberals would do to make children happy......
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The fact you would suggest something like that definitely defines your mentality. First off before you start mentioning liberals perhaps you'd like to know what individual liberals think because frankly I do not share those sentiments.
 
Sun Devil said:
Explain how it's murder...
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okay.....a living human is turned into a dead human

How is early fetal termination any different than a man jerking off until he ejaculates? What about the millions of sperm cells with the "potential" to be something that die?
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well, a sperm cell isn't a living human....of course if you didn't actually know anything about the birds and the bees you might not have been aware of that.....please call your mother and ask......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
okay.....a living human is turned into a dead human



well, a sperm cell isn't a living human....of course if you didn't actually know anything about the birds and the bees you might not have been aware of that.....please call your mother and ask......
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living in what sense?

A red blood cell is living, but it doesn't mean it's sentient. A sperm cell is a living organism, doesn't mean it's sentient. A zygote is a living organism, but it is not sentient. So alas my argument stands.

A zygote is a potential human, it is not human. A zygote does not possess the characteristics of an infant, it possess the potentiality to become an infant. Try again!
 
Sun Devil said:
I read the link and it's the same conservative spin.

As I said I'm of the school of thought that a lot of what we base life one such as pleasure and pain is based on sentience. The comparison of living organisms to a potential human was exactly my point. What are you killing? A clump of cells. Similarly when I masturbate and ejaculate, what am I killing, living cells. I'm not going to sit here and determine what a woman should do with her body. A woman's life and her decision trumps what a fetus "may want" if such a phrase exists.
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You love murder. Embrace it
 
Sun Devil said:
I read the link and it's the same conservative spin.

As I said I'm of the school of thought that a lot of what we base life one such as pleasure and pain is based on sentience. The comparison of living organisms to a potential human was exactly my point. What are you killing? A clump of cells. Similarly when I masturbate and ejaculate, what am I killing, living cells. I'm not going to sit here and determine what a woman should do with her body. A woman's life and her decision trumps what a fetus "may want" if such a phrase exists.
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Not if the first instance of your chiming in uses the term fetal incorrectly.

The Zygote is a living human organism, at least according to embryology textbooks...

For example, the embryology textbook Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects states: The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms. (Textbook: Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. By Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud. W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition. Page 500.)

Your argument is that they are only "potential". Your inaccurate terminology may make you feel better, but accuracy is important. Ignoring science when it is inconvenient is inane when participating in an argument such as this.
 
Sun Devil said:
living in what sense?

A red blood cell is living, but it doesn't mean it's sentient. A sperm cell is a living organism, doesn't mean it's sentient. A zygote is a living organism, but it is not sentient. So alas my argument stands.

A zygote is a potential human, it is not human. A zygote does not possess the characteristics of an infant, it possess the potentiality to become an infant. Try again!
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A red blood cell is a red blood cell, a zygote is a human organism. While we may argue philosophically that it isn't a "person" we really can't argue that it isn't a human organism, ignoring what it is shows only deliberate ignorance. It may be more convenient to your argument, but it displays only that ignorance.
 
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