Damo, so he announced that he had the disease and then continued in his position as President of the NRA. Now, i can understand their position being one of, listen, anyone we get to go around screaming "Out Of My cold Dead Hands" after a bunch of kids have been shot up is bound to be a half-wit of one sort or the other, we might as well stick with the half-wit we know. It still remains that he was in that position, that the NRA kept him in that position, and that when you head up what some people (myself among them) consider to be an outright EVIL organization, and you sit around crying about it's not fair because I was a half-witted evil bastard at the time, don't expect much sympathy!
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Damo, so he announced that he had the disease and then continued in his position as President of the NRA. Now, i can understand their position being one of, listen, anyone we get to go around screaming "Out Of My cold Dead Hands" after a bunch of kids have been shot up is bound to be a half-wit of one sort or the other, we might as well stick with the half-wit we know. It still remains that he was in that position, that the NRA kept him in that position, and that when you head up what some people (myself among them) consider to be an outright EVIL organization, and you sit around crying about it's not fair because I was a half-witted evil bastard at the time, don't expect much sympathy!
Which is why I placed it in quotes. You are still being disingenuous. Moore was able to "beat" a man while he was down. It was a sad display of cowardice. At least argue with somebody with all their faculties then promote a "victory".
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
As for the NRA meeting although this man clearly has an agenda I think you should consider the following unless you want to claim it is pure fabrication
A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:
Weeping children outside Columbine;
Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";
Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"
Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"
The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.
Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.
Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:
In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.
All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.
Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.
The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.
"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:
Weeping children outside Columbine;
Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";
Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"
Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"
The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.
Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.
Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:
In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.
All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.
Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.
The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.
"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
I have yet to say it was "unfair". Other than to say that it isn't much of a victory to debate a man who had pretty much canceled public appearances after an announcement of a debilitating disease coming unannounced to his door...
It was a sad "victory" at best.
I'm not shedding any tears for Heston.
Many Families of the victims of columbine begged him to postpone or move the NRA convention, which came on the heels of the shooting. He essentially told them to go to hell. So fuck him.
I've seen all of this IHg, and it changes nothing that heston did or that is ON TAPE saying.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
They are not as callous as the movie portrays them.
In fact, I don't even understand their argument. Are they bragging that even though Heston did tell Denver he's already there and said 'Out of My Cold Dead hands" with such glee, with such glee, with such glee, that even though he did that, no he didn't go right up to the sobbing kids at Columbine, kick them in the face, and say, look you little f'ers, you'll get my gun out of my cold dead hands".
Is that what they want Kudos for?
Is that what they want Kudos for?
Well, that is open to interpretation, I think.
They did. However NYC state law governing non-profits made it so they couldn't postpone or cancel the voting meeting. At least get your facts before making such accusations. Weeks worth of events were cancelled leaving only one night of voting. Also the scene where he was talking about "cold dead hands" was from BEFORE, it was just after they decided to hold the meeting there.
It is creative editing.
And I do not consider an alzheimer patient who had canceled public appearances an "authority" on any subject.
Can't you see, Ihategov, the NRA used this event to rally around guns. I can't believe you can't see that. You must be blind.
I don't think you've actually seen the movie.
First, I have no idea whether Moore knew Heston had alzheimers. It wasn't publically announced he had Alzeihmers until 2002. Which is the year the film was made. So the interview could have been taped before Moore knew anything about that.
Second, if you watch the interview, Moore was respectful. He was just asking pointed questions. But, not dogging him. It was Heston that didn't like the question, and gave a really messed up answer to one of them. And then it was Heston that stormed off.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
This was a man who yelled outt "out of my cold, dead hands" right after columbine so you know, too bad.
Darla you don't think the considerations I point take out some of the bite of Heston's comments. Does the cancellation of events in Denver and the rescheduling of meetings to show sympathy and decorum not count for anything?
The NRA actually did what its critics catigate it for not doing. I'm not sure what you want of them. Should Heston have proclaimed "I've been wrong the whole time lets abandon our organizations purpose and work toward gun control?"
And why do you consider the NRA evil. Over zealous maybe but evil?
Darla you don't think the considerations I point take out some of the bite of Heston's comments. Does the cancellation of events in Denver and the rescheduling of meetings to show sympathy and decorum not count for anything?
The NRA actually did what its critics catigate it for not doing. I'm not sure what you want of them. Should Heston have proclaimed "I've been wrong the whole time lets abandon our organizations purpose and work toward gun control?"
And why do you consider the NRA evil. Over zealous maybe but evil?
Once again, that scene was filmed when they had chosen Denver as the place to hold their Convention, and not after Columbine. It was months before Columbine when that was filmed.
The Convention was cancelled, as much as they legally could. I'd bet they'd even have cancelled the voting meeting had it given them enough time to legally do so.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Well, that is open to interpretation, I think.
On balance most things don't appear as they seem when put into context. That is my interpretation.
On balance most things don't appear as they seem when put into context. That is my interpretation.
I have most definitely seen the movie. And I watched it with the knowledge of Mr. Heston's announcement. Getting an alzheimer's patient confused to the point of storming off.... Huge challenge. Moore must be proud of his mental acuity.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
I watched the movie as well as F911. It thought both although misleading if you are a sheep had a generally good theme. His series the Awful truth usually sucked though.
My favorite scene was the one where he got the rifle for getting a bank account...
I have definitely seen the movie. I would love to see Moore in a debate with Wayne Lapierre.