America Is on a Path to Turn into Detroit, and Republicans Are Cool with That?!!

Rose said:
Right here we see the limits of modern liberalism. If you really care about those harmed by a system of private property, why tolerate it? You cannot - cannot - have a government in the interests of workers, so long as there are capitalists. Gramsci, the Italian communist, outlined the cultural aspects of capitalism, from its behavioral superstructure, to the enforcement of ideology by the dominant classes.

Really, its naive to think that our government only serves capitalists out of financial wants.
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Why are there idiots like you still around? Show where communism has ever worked, even once.
 
Damocles said:
Who set tax policy that made it unlikely for new companies to enter Detroit? It wasn't the car companies, nor was it republicans. Who set unattainable "earnings" as a benchmark on retirement for Detroit public workers? It wasn't the car companies, nor was it republicans.

The reality is that the city's fiscal policy was set by the people running that city, who weren't republicans. Your fantasy of all Democratic government came to fruition in Detroit and Michigan, only to come crashing down leaving the people of the city with their pants down.

In Detroit reality is encroaching onto your secondary fantasy of how the nation would look if Democrats ran the show, instead of paying attention and learning and realizing that such poor fiscal policy will take down cities, states and nations.., you are blissfully trying to shift the blame. We can't afford to bail out all the cities that will fail if they continue down the same path as Detroit.
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What a crock of shit. Imported cars ruined Detroit, end of story.
 
Damocles said:
The auto companies are not Detroit. Detroit is a city, not two companies... It is the city that is going down in fiscal conflagration caused by poor policy, not the car companies. The CEOs of two companies didn't give away the fiscal future of the city to massive debt to buy some votes, that was the people running the city, which weren't republicans. The reality is, republicans didn't run that city into the poor house, the people who ran that city weren't republicans.
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It is in the poor house because of lack of revenue due to the failure of Americans to buy American cars.
This is primary Dubya's fault, for rescinding the increased CAFE standards put in place by the Clintons. It was one of his many ubelievably stupid, shortsighted actions which combined to doom the economy for an as yet undetermined amount of time.

But hey, we might as well blame it on a Democratic Mayor, instead of being honest.
 
Rune said:
Shit for brains; when the auto industry was thriving, so was Detroit.
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No, it wasn't. Detroit stopped thriving in the 60's. The auto industry has been up and down since then. Also, we make a lot more things than cars here, and have since before I was born.
 
Rune said:
Why are there idiots like you still around? Show where communism has ever worked, even once.
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Delightful. It takes a special kind of person to both follow politics and frivolously write off democracy.

Remember that post you quoted? Well, I wrote a name: Gramsci. He, along with Karl Kautsky are vital to understanding the failure of communism. Gramsci theorized that the pressures of social systems are ideological, cultural, as well as political and economic; basically, folks like Lenin tried to apply communism to a place without a democratic tradition, without popular support of their ideals, and without fighting for consent. In his case, Kautsky was a passive revolutionary who believed that socialism/communism weren't then economically possible, but that they would be eventually. Marx and Engels agreed with this, somewhat, as they praised the significance of bourgeois revolutions and capitalism as part of the development process, needing to proceed socialism. And Lenin even lamented on the futility of the Russian revolution.

Put all this together, and you get context. You understand that the great revolutions failed due to an inability to account for externalities; not due to some core deficiency.
 
Rune said:
It is in the poor house because of lack of revenue due to the failure of Americans to buy American cars.
This is primary Dubya's fault, for rescinding the increased CAFE standards put in place by the Clintons. It was one of his many ubelievably stupid, shortsighted actions which combined to doom the economy for an as yet undetermined amount of time.

But hey, we might as well blame it on a Democratic Mayor, instead of being honest.
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Again still utter nonsense. The car companies didn't respond to change in their customers' expectations, and the city didn't attempt to attract other companies. The government policy destroyed the city, and the company policy destroyed the companies. They are not one and the same.

Being honest would require you to understand that the government sets the government policy, and that policy drove a city to ruin.
 
Damocles said:
Again still utter nonsense. The car companies didn't respond to change in their customers' expectations, and the city didn't attempt to attract other companies. The government policy destroyed the city, and the company policy destroyed the companies. They are not one and the same.

Being honest would require you to understand that the government sets the government policy, and that policy drove a city to ruin.
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Dubya encouraged car companies to make wasteful cars, in two ways, by eliminating the CAFE increases, and by allowing SUV's over 6000 lbs to
receive tax benefits meant for commercial trucks.
 
Rose said:
Delightful. It takes a special kind of person to both follow politics and frivolously write off democracy.

Remember that post you quoted? Well, I wrote a name: Gramsci. He, along with Karl Kautsky are vital to understanding the failure of communism. Gramsci theorized that the pressures of social systems are ideological, cultural, as well as political and economic; basically, folks like Lenin tried to apply communism to a place without a democratic tradition, without popular support of their ideals, and without fighting for consent. In his case, Kautsky was a passive revolutionary who believed that socialism/communism weren't then economically possible, but that they would be eventually. Marx and Engels agreed with this, somewhat, as they praised the significance of bourgeois revolutions and capitalism as part of the development process, needing to proceed socialism. And Lenin even lamented on the futility of the Russian revolution.

Put all this together, and you get context. You understand that the great revolutions failed due to an inability to account for externalities; not due to some core deficiency.
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Thanks for proving what you advocate has never worked. It is not as if it hasn't been tried. It never fails to devolve into the worst kind of tyranny.
 
Rune said:
A city built upon revenue derived from manufacturing. Take away revenue, you have bankruptcy.
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Still shortsighted. A city who places all its eggs in too few baskets is ultimately going to fail.

The reality is, a fiscal tax policy that brought more business to the city would have benefited them, but they were shortsighted, much like you. A city fails on government policy, not company policy.

Your attempt to blame those "foreigners" notwithstanding, the government failed the people of Detroit as they bet all their money on the future of companies who were too foolish to follow their customers' wants. It was the government policy that caused the failure of the city, not them "foreigners", and certainly not the party who wasn't in power to set the policy.

The attempt to blame the failure of government policy on companies who you want to blame is laughable. There are many fiscally sound cities that never had a car company anywhere near them.
 
Damocles said:
Still shortsighted. A city who places all its eggs in too few baskets is ultimately going to fail.

The reality is, a fiscal tax policy that brought more business to the city would have benefited them, but they were shortsighted, much like you. A city fails on government policy, not company policy.

Your attempt to blame those "foreigners" notwithstanding, the government failed the people of Detroit as they bet all their money on the future of companies who were too foolish to follow their customers' wants.
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I live in the region where the industrial revolution began. There are a great many formerly prosperous industrial Cities within a short drive of my home.
The reasons for their demise are not a mystery, except to you.
 
Rune said:
I live in the region where the industrial revolution began. There are a great many formerly prosperous industrial Cities within a short drive of my home.
The reasons for their demise are not a mystery, except to you.
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It's not a mystery to anybody, it was the failure of the governments of those cities to take a longer view and aim for other businesses as the central industry began to erode.

This is like blaming the failure of a city who relied on making buggy whips and wagon wheels on Ford, it wasn't Ford that caused them to watch the car become more popular over decades as they continued to set policy and tax rates that failed to draw new companies so they could obtain votes from the people who thought the policy was saving their job at the buggy whip factory..

The reality is, even one tiny iota of foresight would tell them that they were building a future as a ghost town, and instead of attempting to buy votes they should have worked to benefit the city rather than a tiny number of companies they really liked.
 
Rune said:
You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how wrong it is.
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It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Import cars didn't kill Detroit. The boom of SUV's in the 90's/early 2000's was a great time for the auto industry. Didn't do a damn thing for Detroit.
 
Rune said:
Do the research yourself then. Figure it out. The ascendence of Japanese imports is in direct correlation to the descent of Detroit.
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No, it isn't. Japanese cars weren't popular until the oil crisis (1970's), but then fell out of favor for SUVs in the 80's/90's/2000's. Detroit has been declining since the early 60's.
 
evince said:
hey fucking idiot


why you playing stupid?


WHO controlled the INCOME of the vast majority of workers in the city/

assholes who cared NOTHING about the city or its people.

They cashed in instead fo building the corp into the future and then retired elsewhere saying fuck you mo town
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actually.... Chrysler and GM Employ only 9100 people in Detroit.... Ranking them #9 and #10. Here are Detroits top employers and the number of employees.

1 Detroit Public Schools 13,750
2 City of Detroit 13,187
3 Detroit Medical Center 10,499
4 Henry Ford Health System 8,502
5 U.S. Government 6,335
6 Blue Cross Blue Shield 6,000
7 Wayne State University 5,019
8 State of Michigan 4,910
9 General Motors 4,652
10 Chrysler 4,517
11 U.S. Postal Service 4,106
12 Quicken Loans 4,000
13 St. John Health System 3,818
14 DTE Energy 3,771
15 Wayne County 3,674
16 MGM Grand Detroit 3,000
17 Compuware 2,597
18 MotorCity Casino 2,424
19 American Axle 1,990
20 Greektown Casino 1,800
21 Comerica 1,706


Your biggest employer in Detroit is Detroit! Municipally funded UNIONS and out of control pensions are causing this. GM and Chrysler combined arent close to being the top employer.
 
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