APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare

Fish said:
I do realize this. In five years I'll either be hooked up to a machine or I'll have a job in my field with insurance.

This might come as a bit of a shock, not so much to you Damo (as you seem to be at least open to reason), but I'm for a public options (and ultimately for UHC) because I worry about other people having to make the same impossible decisions I've had to make.
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I think we can extend a hand up much more quickly, and effectively, using legislation that doesn't centralize this into a government bureaucracy that needs to be created out of whole cloth.

I believe that we could create something amazing if we actually had a conversation rather than an ad blitz attempting to get people to accept the first bit of crisis legislation available.
 
Damocles said:
I think we can extend a hand up much more quickly, and effectively, using legislation that doesn't centralize this into a government bureaucracy that needs to be created out of whole cloth.

I believe that we could create something amazing if we actually had a conversation rather than an ad blitz attempting to get people to accept the first bit of crisis legislation available.
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I'll agree that Democrats see an opening and they're taking it. Health care reform has failed every 10 years in this country for the past 100. The argument of "What the rush?" falls so flat.

I'll disagree that the ad blitz has been trying to sway people toward the bill though. Do you really think the majority of the media and advertising is coming from those who support health care reform? On this board alone there are people who are one small step away from believing that you will have to go before the House of Representatives on an individual basis and prove that you're worth keeping alive. Does that sound like discourse or something, for lack of better words, completely fucking crazy to you?
 
Fish said:
I'll agree that Democrats see an opening and they're taking it. Health care reform has failed every 10 years in this country for the past 100. The argument of "What the rush?" falls so flat.

I'll disagree that the ad blitz has been trying to sway people toward the bill though. Do you really think the majority of the media and advertising is coming from those who support health care reform? On this board alone there are people who are one small step away from believing that you will have to go before the House of Representatives on an individual basis and prove that you're worth keeping alive. Does that sound like discourse or something, for lack of better words, completely fucking crazy to you?
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It is directly in response to the "pass it nownownownow" that was going on, had there been nothing there would be no discussion at all and it would have passed before anybody except the writers knew what was in it, even those voting for it in the legislature.

And again, in each attempt previous it was "pass what we have now" and never, "Let's get to a table and make something amazing that everybody can get behind."

It will fail again if this is all that is ever offered.
 
I agree to a point, but it's never going to be bipartisan. I think that the current rhetoric is cemented proof of that. People are being scared shitless by the propaganda out there and seeing who can shout the loudest is now considered the be political discourse in America.
 
Fish said:
I agree to a point, but it's never going to be bipartisan. I think that the current rhetoric is cemented proof of that. People are being scared shitless by the propaganda out there and seeing who can shout the loudest is now considered the be political discourse in America.
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It will if it originates from the legislature rather than from the WH.

Since one branch is solely of one party the only way for bipartisan legislation to be created is from the one branch that is always comprised of both parties.

If after this fails some R's and D's get together to make something that will pass, if it is supported by the leadership of both parties in the congress, it will pass and it will be better than this mess.
 
Fish said:
Ok, so I've been thinking about this post today.

Obviously you're telling me that the only reason I'm poor is because I choose to be. This bootstraps mentality, which started to rear it's head post-Nixon, is in my opinion one of the main problems the right has with luring in young voters.

I let conservatives in this thread know my situation and in doing so posted a lot more personal information than I ever intended to on JPP. I did this because I genuinely wanted to hear what their solutions to my situations were. I'm not going to say that I didn't have preconceived notions about what those answers would be or that I would even follow any general recommendations, but I was interested to hear any take, from the right, on my life problems as I laid them out in this thread.

The answers I got, AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, were mainly along the lines of, "Your higher education is holding you back." Which begs the question, what exactly is it holding me back from?

You're offering me a choice between death and a life not worth living, which as I think everyone would agree, is no choice at all. My alternative, as some of you see it, is to drop out of school and pick up another job (my third, if you haven't been paying attention) so that I can pay an outrageously priced premium (preexisting condition) on a health insurance plan and literally be in the exact same monetary position I am now.

The death part is self explanatory and as I've said before, if I don't get some sort of health insurance in the next few years my quality of the rest of my life will be greatly diminished, if not extinguished. The life not worth living part? Waiting tables, manning cash registers, and filing papers 80 hours a week for 50 years until I die is not appealing to me.

Essentially I've already made this choice. I've thrown the dice and am gambling that I can stay alive until I get my degree. I'm not looking for sympathy or compassion and please don't think I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself, but do you think this is a decision any citizen of the richest country in the history of the world should have to face down? How does my situation make you feel, not about me, but about our health care system as a whole?

Enjoy this giant block of text.
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If you don't mind me asking, maybe I must have missed it somewhere before but what exactly is it that you suffer from?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
wrong....it defines what must be covered, including dental and vision care...it's all spelled out....
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that is analogous to the auto ins....it defines or rather provides what coverage you have, including liability and uninsured motorist coverage....it is virtually the same thing....it does not mandate you have to get government insurance...your initial claim was that once off private or change policies....you can't ever go back to a private carrier....that is wrong

they are still private companies that can have different policies, or rather, more than the minimum policy the government wants them to offer....rates are going to go up for EVERYONE....somehow i don't think this is lost on the insurance industry.....and seems i haven't really heard much from them by way of complaining....
 
Yurt said:
that is analogous to the auto ins....it defines or rather provides what coverage you have, including liability and uninsured motorist coverage....it is virtually the same thing....it does not mandate you have to get government insurance...your initial claim was that once off private or change policies....you can't ever go back to a private carrier....that is wrong
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no, it isn't...it's likely you won't see it until it's too late, since you won't look at it now...but sooner or later it will be clear to you....

and my initial claim, and my current claim is that except for a short termed grandfather provision, the only thing you will be able to buy is the government plan.....I don't care if you buy it from a private carrier or the government, it's still the same plan....

how do you think there is room for variation.....co-pays are restricted, deductibles are restricted, what is covered and not covered is restricted....the government plan even has three different tiers....95%, 85%, and a third which I haven't yet found the percent for.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no, it isn't...it's likely you won't see it until it's too late, since you won't look at it now...but sooner or later it will be clear to you....

and my initial claim, and my current claim is that except for a short termed grandfather provision, the only thing you will be able to buy is the government plan.....I don't care if you buy it from a private carrier or the government, it's still the same plan....

how do you think there is room for variation.....co-pays are restricted, deductibles are restricted, what is covered and not covered is restricted....the government plan even has three different tiers....95%, 85%, and a third which I haven't yet found the percent for.....
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you just gave variation as examples....

and from what you have given i have not seen where the bill says only X, Y , Z coverage can be sold.....do you have something that supports your claim?
 
Fish said:
Ok, so I've been thinking about this post today.

Obviously you're telling me that the only reason I'm poor is because I choose to be. This bootstraps mentality, which started to rear it's head post-Nixon, is in my opinion one of the main problems the right has with luring in young voters.

I let conservatives in this thread know my situation and in doing so posted a lot more personal information than I ever intended to on JPP. I did this because I genuinely wanted to hear what their solutions to my situations were. I'm not going to say that I didn't have preconceived notions about what those answers would be or that I would even follow any general recommendations, but I was interested to hear any take, from the right, on my life problems as I laid them out in this thread.

The answers I got, AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, were mainly along the lines of, "Your higher education is holding you back." Which begs the question, what exactly is it holding me back from?

You're offering me a choice between death and a life not worth living, which as I think everyone would agree, is no choice at all. My alternative, as some of you see it, is to drop out of school and pick up another job (my third, if you haven't been paying attention) so that I can pay an outrageously priced premium (preexisting condition) on a health insurance plan and literally be in the exact same monetary position I am now.

The death part is self explanatory and as I've said before, if I don't get some sort of health insurance in the next few years my quality of the rest of my life will be greatly diminished, if not extinguished. The life not worth living part? Waiting tables, manning cash registers, and filing papers 80 hours a week for 50 years until I die is not appealing to me.

Essentially I've already made this choice. I've thrown the dice and am gambling that I can stay alive until I get my degree. I'm not looking for sympathy or compassion and please don't think I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself, but do you think this is a decision any citizen of the richest country in the history of the world should have to face down? How does my situation make you feel, not about me, but about our health care system as a whole?

Enjoy this giant block of text.
Click to expand...

You seem to have the perception that people who haven't graduated from a "higer education" are stuck waiting tables, manning cash registers, and filing papers.
 
Yurt said:
you just gave variation as examples....

and from what you have given i have not seen where the bill says only X, Y , Z coverage can be sold.....do you have something that supports your claim?
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Page 15
1 (b) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFIED HEALTH BENE2
FITS PLANS.—On or after the first day of Y1, a health
3 benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan
4 under this division unless the plan meets the applicable
5 requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan
6 and plan year involved:
7 (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
8 (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
9 (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protec
10 tion).

Page 25
15 SEC. 121. COVERAGE OF ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE.
16 (a) IN GENERAL.—A qualified health benefits plan
17 shall provide coverage that at least meets the benefit
18 standards adopted under section 124 for the essential ben
19 efits package described in section 122 for the plan year
20 involved


Page 27
19 (b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The
20 items and services described in this subsection are the fol
21 lowing:
22 (1) Hospitalization.
23 (2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic
24 services, including emergency department services.

28
1 (3) Professional services of physicians and other
2 health professionals.
3 (4) Such services, equipment, and supplies inci
4 dent to the services of a physician’s or a health pro
5 fessional’s delivery of care in institutional settings,
6 physician offices, patients’ homes or place of resi
7 dence, or other settings, as appropriate.
8 (5) Prescription drugs.
9 (6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
10 (7) Mental health and substance use disorder
11 services.
12 (8) Preventive services, including those services
13 recommended with a grade of A or B by the Task
14 Force on Clinical Preventive Services and those vac
15 cines recommended for use by the Director of the
16 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
17 (9) Maternity care.
18 (10) Well baby and well child care and oral
19 health, vision, and hearing services, equipment, and
20 supplies at least for children under 21 years of age.


Page 28
23 (1) NO COST-SHARING FOR PREVENTIVE SERV
24 ICES.—There shall be no cost-sharing under the es
25 sential benefits package for preventive items and

29
1 services (as specified under the benefit standards),
2 including well baby and well child care.
3 (2) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—
4 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar
5 ing incurred under the essential benefits pack
6 age with respect to an individual (or family) for
7 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec
8 ified in subparagraph (B).
9 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
10 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
11 $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a
12 family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded
13 to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year
14 by the annual percentage increase in the Con
15 sumer Price Index (United States city average)
16 applicable to such year.
17 (C) USE OF COPAYMENTS.—In establishing
18 cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and pre
19 mium plans under this subsection, the Sec
20 retary shall, to the maximum extent possible,
21 use only copayments and not coinsurance.
22 (3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—
23 (A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under
24 the essential benefits package shall be designed
25 to provide a level of coverage that is designed


30
1 to provide benefits that are actuarially equiva2
lent to approximately 70 percent of the full ac3
tuarial value of the benefits provided under the
4 reference benefits package described in sub5
paragraph (B).
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there is also "enhanced" and "premium" coverage which cover 85% and 95% of benefits....

so, what variables do you see that private companies could work with in creating different options?....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
there is also "enhanced" and "premium" coverage which cover 85% and 95% of benefits....

so, what variables do you see that private companies could work with in creating different options?....
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Did you even read that? Or do you have no sense of shame?

MINIMUM coverages outlined for plans sold on the health exchange. That's all thats there. There's nothing there limiting what they can sell you above and beyond the minimums.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
You seem to have the perception that people who haven't graduated from a "higer education" are stuck waiting tables, manning cash registers, and filing papers.
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No, I don't have that perception of people who haven't graduated from higer education. I have that perception of that's what I'm doing now and it sucks.
 
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