Civil War museum gets rid of Confederate flag on new logo

LV426 said:
But you are arguing that, Flash.

I asked you why you thought it belonged in a museum, and you said that its because it can be placed within the "complete picture" of the culture and history of the Civil War.

So therefore, if you wave it about outside of a museum, then you no longer get that placement within the complete picture.

Instead, you supplant that context (or, remove it from the big picture), therefore erasing the history of it.

If you pulled just the river out of the background of the Mona Lisa, is it still the Mona Lisa?
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If they removed just the river from the painting, everybody would still know it was the Mona Lisa.

Waving a flag outside of a museum is not intended to give a complete picture of its history. The person waving the flag may not care about its history, context, or meaning. People who want a complete picture can visit a museum or read a book. Others are free to wave the flag for any reason they choose without any context or history.

I see people wearing articles of clothing with the American flag or portions of that flag on them. That shirt tells me nothing about the history or meaning of that flag, but he is free to wear it and it erases none of the history associated with it---it still exists in history classes, museums, books, during the pledge and national anthem.
 
Flash said:
Waving a flag outside of a museum is not intended to give a complete picture of its history.
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Right, it's intended to intimidate, which is what its history is.

You seem to want to play make believe that it's not. And you make a sophist argument to do so.

Stop.
 
Flash said:
People who want a complete picture can visit a museum or read a book. Others are free to wave the flag for any reason they choose without any context or history.
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So you support erasing history, then.

Great.

So maybe hop in the DeLorean with Doc Brown and tell Flash from two days ago that he's full of shit.
 
Flash said:
I see people wearing articles of clothing with the American flag or portions of that flag on them. That shirt tells me nothing about the history or meaning of that flag, but he is free to wear it and it erases none of the history associated with it---it still exists in history classes, museums, books, during the pledge and national anthem.
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Right, because the American flag, unlike the Confederate Flag, isn't used as a tool of intimidation.

You argued that the flag represents slavery and white supremacy. So waving about a flag that represents that would be intimidation, wouldn't it? You're trying to have it both ways here, Flash. You're trying to say that tearing down flags "erases history", but waving them about without the historical context you say is so important, is not.

But it is. Waving it about outside of the "big picture" you said was so important and shouldn't be erased, is erasing that big picture.

So you support erasing history. Fascist.
 
Flash said:
That shirt tells me nothing about the history or meaning of that flag, but he is free to wear it and it erases none of the history associated with it---it still exists in history classes, museums, books, during the pledge and national anthem.
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Right, but the American flag, unlike the Confederate Flag, isn't used as a tool of intimidation or oppression. But the Confederate Flag's sole purpose and function is to do just that because of what you said it represents. And it represents that because it's part of the "complete picture" of the culture and history of the Civil War. You literally said those words. So if we take that through to its logical conclusion, waving that flag about without it being a part of the "complete picture" erases its presence in that "complete picture".

So you're arguing that tearing down flags erases history, which means if you take it out of the "complete picture", you're erasing its history.

So why do you want to erase history, Flash? Why are you accusing me of wanting to erase history when your entire argument is for the erasing of history?
 
Flash said:
If they removed just the river from the painting, everybody would still know it was the Mona Lisa.

Waving a flag outside of a museum is not intended to give a complete picture of its history. The person waving the flag may not care about its history, context, or meaning. People who want a complete picture can visit a museum or read a book. Others are free to wave the flag for any reason they choose without any context or history.

I see people wearing articles of clothing with the American flag or portions of that flag on them. That shirt tells me nothing about the history or meaning of that flag, but he is free to wear it and it erases none of the history associated with it---it still exists in history classes, museums, books, during the pledge and national anthem.
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Let's summarize how your argument has changed over the course of this thread:

First, you said that these flags belong in museums
Then, you said that taking those things down anywhere else erases history
Then, you said that the history is "BS"
Then, you said that it doesn't erase history to wave the flag about outside of the museum where it exists in order to give "a complete picture of the culture and history of the Civil War"
Now, you are saying that ripping it out of that big picture still somehow maintains the picture, while also saying it doesn't if the flag is torn down

So...yeah...you're all over the place. Why not just say that the Confederate Flag doesn't bother you personally, and since your personal comfort is all that matters, we should just accept your cognitive dissonance?
 
LV426 said:
Right, but the American flag, unlike the Confederate Flag, isn't used as a tool of intimidation or oppression. But the Confederate Flag's sole purpose and function is to do just that because of what you said it represents. And it represents that because it's part of the "complete picture" of the culture and history of the Civil War. You literally said those words. So if we take that through to its logical conclusion, waving that flag about without it being a part of the "complete picture" erases its presence in that "complete picture".

So you're arguing that tearing down flags erases history, which means if you take it out of the "complete picture", you're erasing its history.

So why do you want to erase history, Flash? Why are you accusing me of wanting to erase history when your entire argument is for the erasing of history?
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Everything is not intended to give a complete picture of history and is not required to.

But your argument is based on a false premise that an inanimate object can be a tool of oppression or intimidation even when used in a peaceful manner. It is a terrible idea to ban something because it is offensive to some people.

More importantly, you are trying to deprive people of basic freedoms. I remember when liberals were big advocates of free speech before the PC movement pushed removing offensive and hate speech.
 
Flash said:
Everything is not intended to give a complete picture of history and is not required to.
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But this is, though, that's the difference.

So you argue that taking them down "erases history"...the same history that is the "complete picture" of which these flags are a part. So waving it about without that complete picture erases the same history you say would be erased by taking them down.

You're trying to have it both ways, and in both cases, you're wrong.
 
LV426 said:
Let's summarize how your argument has changed over the course of this thread:

First, you said that these flags belong in museums
Then, you said that taking those things down anywhere else erases history
Then, you said that the history is "BS"
Then, you said that it doesn't erase history to wave the flag about outside of the museum where it exists in order to give "a complete picture of the culture and history of the Civil War"
Now, you are saying that ripping it out of that big picture still somehow maintains the picture, while also saying it doesn't if the flag is torn down

So...yeah...you're all over the place. Why not just say that the Confederate Flag doesn't bother you personally, and since your personal comfort is all that matters, we should just accept your cognitive dissonance?
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Now look at who is taking things out of context.

Regardless of any arguments we make or whether anything erases history or not, what you would like to do violates basic constitutional rights and is not possible. And the country is much better off because we don't impose such fascist policies.

What you propose is not a tool of oppression, it is oppression.
 
Flash said:
But your argument is based on a false premise that an inanimate object can be a tool of oppression or intimidation even when used in a peaceful manner.
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1. How do you use a flag in a non-peaceful manner?
2. You said yourself the flag represents slavery and white supremacy because that is its role in the "complete history" you claim to care about so much, but really don't.

You accused me of wanting to erase history because I think the flag should be in its proper context in a museum.

Think about how stupid that accusation is, and then punch yourself in the dick for making it.
 
Flash said:
It is a terrible idea to ban something because it is offensive to some people.
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This isn't about offense, and the only people offended are those who are confronted with the flag's history, like you.

This is about intimidation, which is what that flag's purpose is and has always been, even when those who waved it about said so.

That is the "complete history" you want to erase by letting that freak flag fly outside a museum.

So again, why are you such a fascist who wants to erase history?
 
Flash said:
Now look at who is taking things out of context.
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Flash, these are the things you said this whole thread. These are the ever-changing and cognitively dissonant arguments you've been making. You accused me of wanting to erase history by limiting those dumb things to museums, but then you argue that history doesn't matter, which is why tearing them down erases history?

That's your dumb argument, Flash. It's what you've been arguing. A complete and total self-contradictory, cognitively dissonant argument.

You fascist.
 
Flash said:
And the country is much better off because we don't impose such fascist policies.
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Ask black people if they think they're better off seeing the Confederate flag everywhere and having coddled white entitled pricks like you defending it.
 
Flash said:
You wouldn't know the woman in that picture without a river was still the Mona Lisa?
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The PAINTING is called the Mona Lisa, you stupid asshole. The whole painting. Not just the woman in it. FFS, your sophistry is tiresome and pedestrian.

Jesus fucking Christ...

Wow. What a fucking illiterate.
 
LV426 said:
Intimidation is not a freedom.

Try again.

I'm not stopping you from making a stupid argument, Flash, but you're the one who wants to erase history.
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Intimidation is not a freedom. But displaying a flag is not intimidation. You need to read about what elements make up the crime of intimidation.

You are the one who wants to ban flags and symbols and thinks a flag can be a tool of intimidation. Nothing I said compares to that stupidity. Unless it was your claim that a person can assault or murder a Nazi with no consequences.

In both cases your legal knowledge is 100% wrong.
 
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