Do Democrats Comprehend?

[Cypress]

Right, let's "preclude" many Americans because of that. It's all good, so far people tend to think they got more votes than they did. I congratulate you on your win, but attempting to remove nearly half the population from representation is a bit drastic and foolish.

It's all good though. Talk like this will render the group less than strong come election in two years. Keep it up, Bush did and we know what he got for his troubles... Just assume a "mandate" and pretend that the rest of the nation agrees with you 100% because of close election results, we already know where that leads. Go ahead and attempt to disenfranchise every single person who votes differently than you from any representation whatsoever. I'll work with it!

Damo, do you want people who've been wrong from day one on Iraq, or people who've been right from day one on iraq, passing judgement on what we should do?

If you have any republicans who've been right all along, and have shown excellent judgment on iraq, I'd be willing to put them on a commission.

I named two. And I'd add Brent Scowcroft to that mix. Other than that, I'd say 95% of republicans cheered bush on for three years into mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

 

[Battleborne]

Right....!

Fuck the "bipartisan" commission.

Any republican who cheeled this war for three years should automatically be precluded from participating on a commission to get us out of iraq.

Pat Buchanon and Chuck Hagel might qualify, but the rest of the rubber stamp republicans can shut the fuck up on iraq. They've been WRONG from day one. Why should anyone trust them now.

I'd say put people in charge, who were right from day one: Wes Clark, Russ Fiengold, Barbara Boxer, etc.

Brilliant choices...Wes Clark the UN General who put UN markings on US Aircraft and bombed the hell out of Bosnia...and we are still stuck there...and for Boxer and Feingold...oh yeah!ACLU spokespeople!

 

[Damocles]

That's not what he's saying at all.

The people who showed such poor and irrational judgement upon getting us into this mess, should not be the ones you turn to to get you out of said mess.

It's simple common sense.

It's not. Once again, many of them were voted in by a large group of Americans in the current election, they also would "represent" those that voted against your candidates that did win, which were also a large number of Americans, in fact nearly 50%... many of those elections were decided by a very small number. Pretending that you have some sort of dictatorship will lead your side to the same result as the other side who attempted to act the same way.

As I said... I'll watch as you attempt to work it that way. It will only help my side in the next election.

 

[Cypress]

It's not. Once again, many of them were voted in by a large group of Americans in the current election, they also would "represent" those that voted against your candidates that did win, which were also a large number of Americans, in fact nearly 50%... many of those elections were decided by a very small number. Pretending that you have some sort of dictatorship will lead your side to the same result as the other side who attempted to act the same way.

As I said... I'll watch as you attempt to work it that way. It will only help my side in the next election.

Damo,

Are you one of the few people left on the planet that doesn't burst out into gut-busting laughter, when Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, or Newt Gringrich (or any of their republican cheerleaders) pontificate on a solution to Iraq?

Would you go ask a surgeon who botched fifteen operations in a row, for medical advice?

 

[Damocles]

Damo, do you want people who've been wrong from day one on Iraq, or people who've been right from day one on iraq, passing judgement on what we should do?

If you have any republicans who've been right all along, and have shown excellent judgment on iraq, I'd be willing to put them on a commission.

I named two. And I'd add Brent Scowcroft to that mix. Other than that, I'd say 95% of republicans cheered bush on for three years into mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

I already answered this post in the last thread. I believe I have explained myself well.

In even the elections that you guys won there were nearly 50% of the nation that voted for those that were supposedly wrong. Pretending otherwise and assuming some sort of "mandate" to ignore the other side will only lead you to the same result as the people who worked that way on the side you just defeated.

I don't know why I give you guys good advice. I should just let you run it that way. It'd be fun to see the shock in 2008!

 

[Cancel7]

It's not. Once again, many of them were voted in by a large group of Americans in the current election, they also would "represent" those that voted against your candidates that did win, which were also a large number of Americans, in fact nearly 50%... many of those elections were decided by a very small number. Pretending that you have some sort of dictatorship will lead your side to the same result as the other side who attempted to act the same way.

As I said... I'll watch as you attempt to work it that way. It will only help my side in the next election.

We're having two different conversations. You appear to be on a (rather bitter sounding) rant about the outcome of the elections.

I am talking about the folly of turning to the proven bad judgement, and irrationality of the people who got us into this mess, to get us out of it.

The people who got us into it are idealogues. Idealogues don't "learn from their mistakes".

That is why the idealogues are out of this administration and the so-called "realists" are being brought back in, from the Bush 41's circle.

 

[Damocles]

Damo,

Are you one of the few people left on the planet that doesn't burst out into gut-busting laughter, when Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, or Newt Gringrich (or any of their republican cheerleaders) pontificate on a solution to Iraq?

Would you go ask a surgeon who botched fifteen operations in a row, for medical advice?

It depends, in an experimental surgery which was signed on by the family, as long as he learned to do better each time. Sure.

Just as the first surgeons working on heart transplants lost the majority of their patients quickly didn't mean we should give up on them and lose their experience, so we should not lose the representation of nearly 50% of the nation in such committees. The job of such committees is to bring forward ideas, they do not make choices or run agendas. There is no reason not to bring as many ideas as possible to the table.

 

[Battleborne]

Lol....

my mom was using the phrase "shut your piehole" 50 years ago.

I notice you did, in fact, shut your piehole when it came to your fucking up above and not having a clue who said what in the conversation.

good move.

My bad...I forgot you like 'pie holes'...and yo mama was trying to set you "STRAIGHT"!

 

[Cypress]

I already answered this post in the last thread. I believe I have explained myself well.

In even the elections that you guys won there were nearly 50% of the nation that voted for those that were supposedly wrong. Pretending otherwise and assuming some sort of "mandate" to ignore the other side will only lead you to the same result as the people who worked that way on the side you just defeated.

I don't know why I give you guys good advice. I should just let you run it that way. It'd be fun to see the shock in 2008!

Did you notice that I said republlicans like Chuck Hagel and Brent Scowcroft should have their opinons on Iraq heard, since they are among the handful of republicans who appears to know what they're talking about on iraq?

 

[Cypress]

It depends, in an experimental surgery which was signed on by the family, as long as he learned to do better each time. Sure.

Just as the first surgeons working on heart transplants lost the majority of their patients quickly didn't mean we should give up on them and lose their experience, so we should not lose the representation of nearly 50% of the nation in such committees. The job of such committees is to bring forward ideas, they do not make choices or run agendas. There is no reason not to bring as many ideas as possible to the table.

Okay, I got it.

You still think we need the neoconservatives and their republican supporters advice on iraq.


Bad move, IMO.

 

[Damocles]

We're having two different conversations. You appear to be on a (rather bitter sounding) rant about the outcome of the elections.

I am talking about the folly of turning to the proven bad judgement, and irrationality of the people who got us into this mess, to get us out of it.

The people who got us into it are idealogues. Idealogues don't "learn from their mistakes".

That is why the idealogues are out of this administration and the so-called "realists" are being brought back in, from the Bush 41's circle.

I'm not bitter about elections. I congratulate you guys. I give warning though. Acting like you have a sudden dicatatorship because of close wins will lead you to the same result as those you defeated in the last election. Attempting to say I sound bitter is actually quite funny. I believe I am giving good advice to those who otherwise might remain at a perpetual distance. I expect Ds to learn from the past as well as Rs, and looking at the actions of the most recent people who lost might be wise. Pretending that acting just like them is going to keep you in power and then wondering about your loss in 2008 is fine with me...

 

[Cancel7]

I'm not bitter about elections. I congratulate you guys. I give warning though. Acting like you have a sudden dicatatorship because of close wins will lead you to the same result as those you defeated in the last election. Attempting to say I sound bitter is actually quite funny. I believe I am giving good advice to those who otherwise might remain at a perpetual distance. I expect Ds to learn from the past as well as Rs, and looking at the actions of the most recent people who lost might be wise. Pretending that acting just like them is going to keep you in power and then wondering about your loss in 2008 is fine with me...

Understanding that idealogues are not sitting around sifting through evidence to see where they went wrong, but rather, looking for reasons why they were right, and are not the people to get this country out of this debacle, is not "acting" like anyone Damo.

It's just being smart.

 

[Damocles]

Okay, I got it.

You still think we need the neoconservatives and their republican supporters advice on iraq.


Bad move, IMO.

Once again, attempting to remove them from all conversation in government will only appear to be the same action as another group that very recently lost an election. Committees are without power of their own, they only can bring forward ideas and even if those ideas are never acted on, having them there can lead people to believe you are more centered. Simply rejecting even hearing from them will lead you to a result later that we have already seen from a recent election loss from people who acted just that way.

 

[Damocles]

Understanding that idealogues are not sitting around sifting through evidence to see where they went wrong, but rather, looking for reasons why they were right, and are not the people to get this country out of this debacle, is not "acting" like anyone Damo.

It's just being smart.

*sigh* I'll be happy to watch you guys attempt to remove all voice of those people in government. I remember thinking it was foolish while watching another group, who very recently lost an election, do the exact same thing.

 

[Cypress]

Once again, attempting to remove them from all conversation in government will only appear to be the same action as another group that very recently lost an election. Committees are without power of their own, they only can bring forward ideas and even if those ideas are never acted on, having them there can lead people to believe you are more centered. Simply rejecting even hearing from them will lead you to a result later that we have already seen from a recent election loss from people who acted just that way.

This is like giving Michael "Heck of a job" Brown a seat on a commission, to offer solutions to disaster preparation.

His mistakes can be learned from. But the dude has no right offering advice on disaster response.

 

[Damocles]

This is like giving Michael "Heck of a job" Brown a seat on a commission, to offer solutions to disaster preparation.

His mistakes can be learned from. But the dude has no right offering advice on disaster response.

No, it isn't. Brown was not reelected to any position or representing, therefore, a large group of Americans.

My point isn't whether you should follow their advice, it is that you should understand that they represent a large number of Americans who voted against you. Disenfranchising them from government because you believe only you can be right will be a mistake. A mistake made by a group who lost the most recent elections.

 

[Cancel7]

*sigh* I'll be happy to watch you guys attempt to remove all voice of those people in government. I remember thinking it was foolish while watching another group, who very recently lost an election, do the exact same thing.

Neocon idealogues have been discredited...even the president reconizes that. He has turned to the foreign policy advisers of his father. Though I don't think highly of them either, it is good to see the neocons get the boot. No one is going to pay a political price for not taking their "advice" since their advice is not wanted by anyone, including the majority of elected republicans at this point.

You are being very obtuse.

 

[Cancel7]

No, it isn't. Brown was not reelected to any position or representing, therefore, a large group of Americans.

My point isn't whether you should follow their advice, it is that you should understand that they represent a large number of Americans who voted against you. Disenfranchising them from government because you believe only you can be right will be a mistake. A mistake made by a group who lost the most recent elections.

A "large group of Americans" in no way voted for neocons in this election Damo.

Again, we are obviously having two different conversations.

As far as Republicans in general go, and how they are treated by democrats, while it is very touching to see the large amount of Republicans now so "concerned" that the democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot by treating them in the exact way they were treated by them, I'd let them worry about that.

Myths aside, there are some smart people in the Democratic party.

 

[Cypress]

No, it isn't. Brown was not reelected to any position or representing, therefore, a large group of Americans.

My point isn't whether you should follow their advice, it is that you should understand that they represent a large number of Americans who voted against you. Disenfranchising them from government because you believe only you can be right will be a mistake. A mistake made by a group who lost the most recent elections.

1) Commission members aren't elected either. I don't know what the relevance of Brownie being appointed has to do with anything.

2) No one said anything about keeping blundering neoconservatives or their republican apologists out of goverment. A commission is intended to have the best people, with the best judgement for a given problem. Surely, you can understand this. Richard Perle and Newt Gingrinch don't qualify for a commission on Iraq. That doesn't mean they can't be in government or public service.

 

[Damocles]

A "large group of Americans" in no way voted for neocons in this election Damo.

Again, we are obviously having two different conversations.

As far as Republicans in general go, and how they are treated by democrats, while it is very touching to see the large amount of Republicans now so "concerned" that the democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot by treating them in the exact way they were treated by them, I'd let them worry about that.

Myths aside, there are some smart people in the Democratic party.

Okay, so those that won weren't voted for by a large group? Those that lost by a closely fought election were not voted for? You are being deliberately obtuse.