Don't Piss Off Israel!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
Any read the post, don't keep reaping the some old crap. Israel is not targeting civilians, Hezbo is. they just sent three rockets into a daycare center in Israel, Guess that is okay they would be future member of the IDF?
Wrong, both sides are targeting civilians, terrorist fan....
I guess targeting a very well marked aid column is acceptable in case any of the aid feeds children who grow up to join Hizbollah?
Wrong, both sides are targeting civilians, terrorist fan....
I guess targeting a very well marked aid column is acceptable in case any of the aid feeds children who grow up to join Hizbollah?
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
They annonced they are coming after the Hezbo and get out and get away from them, we are coming in...............That is good enough for me.
The IRA used to give warnings before they attacked civilian infrastructure too....
The IRA used to give warnings before they attacked civilian infrastructure too....
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
Toby, if Israeli is only conducting military operations against Hizbollah rockets, why is it bombing civilian areas of Beruit?
Why did the Israelis tell civilians to go north, then shell the roads north trapping them and then helicopters attack civilian vehicle columns leaving the war zone?
Why are ambulances and Red Cross vehicles being targeted?
Why are they attacking well marked aid columns?
Why did the Israelis tell civilians to go north, then shell the roads north trapping them and then helicopters attack civilian vehicle columns leaving the war zone?
Why are ambulances and Red Cross vehicles being targeted?
Why are they attacking well marked aid columns?
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
The IRA (provisional wing) were the prototype for all modern terrorist organizations.toby2 said:
The English and the Irish both know more about terrorism than we do, Tobbes. They've lived through a lot more of it.
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
What does the IRA have to do with this post? Are they involved? I didn't know that.
You stated that Israeli terrorism is a-okay because they gave a warning. The IRA also used to give warnings...
You stated that Israeli terrorism is a-okay because they gave a warning. The IRA also used to give warnings...
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
If that's what you say then you're speaking shear idiocy. Either that or you're deliberately lying. I'm inclined toward the latter, but we shall see.toby2 said:
1) Israel is not "targeting" civilians. That means that if any civilians are killed by an Israeli bomb, shell, missile or bullet, the Israelis didn't mean it. Oh gosh, we goofed! So sorry! But Mom, we didn't mean it! Honest!
Rebuttal to point (1): who cares if they're deliberately targeting civilians? At best, it's the same distinction as between first and second degree murder. That's at best. To the families of the innocents killed, I'm sure that it matters even less. Only children think that what one intends to do is more important than the consequences of what one does. I, for one, prefer not to be childish where matters of life and death are concerned.
The proper definitions of terrorism and terrorist acts do not hinge on whether the perpetrator deliberately targets civilians. I'm sure that one could find some online dictionary somewhere that defines it thusly, but that's immaterial. Terrorism is the attempt to terrorize -- hence the name -- a population by violence and military action. Implicit in this is the willingness to cause the deaths and suffering of innocents in pursuit of a "higher" (very sick) goal, but the actual act of killing innocents does not define terrorism either. If the terrorist attacks only military targets, avoiding civilian casualties entirely, it is still terrorism -- e.g. the attack on the U.S.S. Cole.
2) The death of innocents from Israeli military action is "caused" by Hezbollah. This rests upon the premis that Israel has no option but to attack Lebanon if some terrorist group attacks Israel from within Lebanon.
Rebuttal to point (2): this is pure butt excreta. No person in Hezbollah has ever loaded and fired an Israeli artillary piece during this campaign. Okay, okay: it's entirely possible that some Hezbollah infiltrator in the IDF has indeed pushed a button, as it were. In that possibile but highly fanciful case any deaths are on Hezbollah's hands. Whoopie.
The Israeli government had many options for dealing with the up-ratcheted threat from Hezbollah. Only one of those options involved turning babies into hamburger. We've discussed many of them here.
Terrorism is not, properly speaking, a military problem at all. It is a diplomatic, law enforcement and -- most of all -- economic problem.
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OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Only if they can significantly cut into the birth rate of the subject population. And that's extremely hard to do, short of truly genocidal efforts.Topspin said:
This fact is counter-intuitive, I freely admit. You and I poke fun at one another all the time, Topspin, but, this time, I'm going to refrain. This is an important point. I only wish Trog were around since he could explain it better than I.
First, I'm going to stipulate that poverty and political repression "cause" -- and I use the word very loosely -- terrorism. That is, terrorist groups rely on a strongly dissaffected population for support. The terrorists by and large don't produce their own food or even earn their own money: they're supported by donations and material from sympathetic civilians. Such a population, one that is angry and frustrated enough to produce a few thousand people willing to support a terrorist group, is usually a poor population and a population that thinks of itself as oppressed.
In any (self identified) oppressed population, anywhere, only a small fraction are going to be motivated to join the actual terrorist group(s). A larger but still small faction will support the terrorists with what money they have and with material support -- e.g. lodging, safe houses, food, and so on. Most of the population will either not support the terrorists or will be too frightened and too conservative to offer them any substantive help. HOWEVER, the proportion of the populace that is willing to help or even join is largely determined by the degree of oppression felt by the people. The more oppressed and downtrodden they feel, the more likely they are to join the terrorist group.
You see where this is going I trust.
Consider this. In less than 20 years, the Russians have killed outright more than 25% of the population of Chechnya. That's an astounding number of dead. And that doesn't even include the wounded. Yet, even with this mind-numbing genocidal onslaught, the Chechen resistance still exists and is, despite the ceasefire, still fighting.
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
"Zeinab, 13, is one of four people still at Tyre's Najm Hospital who survived an ill-fated civilian convoy that left the village of Aitaroun last Friday to escape from one of the most bombed areas in south-east of Lebanon near the Israeli border.
As the convoy's three cars approached Tyre, the first was hit by an air strike, killing everyone on board.
The two remaining cars tried to escape, but one was also hit by an missile, causing more deaths and injuries. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5208110.stm
"The ambulance headlamps were on, the blue light overhead was flashing, and another light illuminated the Red Cross flag when the first Israeli missile hit, shearing off the right leg of the man on the stretcher inside. As he lay screaming beneath fire and smoke, patients and ambulance workers scrambled for safety, crawling over glass in the dark. Then another missile hit the second ambulance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html
"Aid convoy hit in Lebanon as UN accuses Hezbollah"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289900,00.html
As the convoy's three cars approached Tyre, the first was hit by an air strike, killing everyone on board.
The two remaining cars tried to escape, but one was also hit by an missile, causing more deaths and injuries. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5208110.stm
"The ambulance headlamps were on, the blue light overhead was flashing, and another light illuminated the Red Cross flag when the first Israeli missile hit, shearing off the right leg of the man on the stretcher inside. As he lay screaming beneath fire and smoke, patients and ambulance workers scrambled for safety, crawling over glass in the dark. Then another missile hit the second ambulance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html
"Aid convoy hit in Lebanon as UN accuses Hezbollah"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289900,00.html
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Care4all said:
They are a militia, as I said, Care. To call them a terrorist group is a bit ridiculous, and if we keep on just labeling groups we don't like terrorists the meaning of the word will be degraded, and it'll be viewed as if we just go out and try to label things terrorist that we don't like instead of things that are actually terrorist organizations.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Watermark said:
To call Hezbollah anything other than a terror organization, shows a level of understanding on the brink of retardation. Surely, you are kidding me, right? Please tell me you are not taking the position that Hezbollah, a group that routinely uses innocent civilian humans as shields, while using terrorist tactics to kill innocent civilians, is anything other than a terror group?
The more I read you morons, the more I am understanding how profoundly ignorant you are, of what terrorism is, what the fundamental problem with it is, why we have to defeat it, or even the most rudimentary logic in the problem we face. You guys really don't have the slightest clue of what we're up against, do you?
I honestly think there are those of you, who will wait until they are sawing off your mother's head in you back yards, before you become concerned or interested in what we are fighting. Are we going to have to have gangs of armed Hezbollah militia's taking over states in America before you people pull your head out of your asses? Because, if you ignore this problem, if you don't fundamentally understand it, or view it as the threat that it is to all mankind, that is exactly the road you are heading down.
maineman
Banned
"Hezbollah, a resistance group, was inspired by the success of the Islamic Revolution in Iran . It was formed by the Ayatollah Khomeini's followers in the early eighties to spread Shia revolution, and to combat Israeli occupation following the 1982 Lebanon War . Hezbollah views Israel as a whole as "an illegal usurper entity, which is based on falsehood, massacres, and illusions", and follows a distinct version of Islamic Shia ideology developed by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.
Along with the Amal Movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc. It is also a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government. The civilian wing participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking nearly 11% of the seats (14 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the Resistance and Development Bloc, 27.3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet.
Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings but also boasts an extensive social development programme. The civilian wing also runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools, and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members. Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually. Hezbollah mainly gets its money from donations. It is widely thought that Hezbollah receives financial help from Iran and Syria, although Iran denies this, and Hezbollah denies receiving aid from Syria.
Throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement. According to a poll released by the "Beirut Center for Research and Information" on 26 July during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hezbollah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hezbollah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.
The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.74 percent of Christian Lebanese viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.
The United States, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, claiming that the organization initiates attacks against civilians and ideologically supports such attacks by other similar organizations.
The United Kingdom, Australia and the Netherlands officially list only the External Security Organisation of Hezballah (ESO) as a proscribed organisation.
The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a 'terrorist organization', but does list Imad Mugniyah, who is widely believed to be heading the international branch of the Hezbollah. Russia does not consider Hezbollah as a terrorist organization .
In a non-binding resolution adopted by the European Parliament on 10 March 2005, The EU Parliament considered that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah and recommended that 'The EU Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them'. MEPs urged the EU Council to classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. However, the Council is reluctant to do so."
[from wikipedia]
To talk of gangs of "Hezbollah militias taking over states in America" is yet another in a long long line of flatulent idiocies from Dixie which prove that simple people who remain determined to see the world in binary, black and white images devoid of nuance should NEVER be allowed to implement America's foreign policy let alone determine it!
Along with the Amal Movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc. It is also a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government. The civilian wing participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking nearly 11% of the seats (14 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the Resistance and Development Bloc, 27.3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet.
Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings but also boasts an extensive social development programme. The civilian wing also runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools, and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members. Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually. Hezbollah mainly gets its money from donations. It is widely thought that Hezbollah receives financial help from Iran and Syria, although Iran denies this, and Hezbollah denies receiving aid from Syria.
Throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement. According to a poll released by the "Beirut Center for Research and Information" on 26 July during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hezbollah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hezbollah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.
The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.74 percent of Christian Lebanese viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.
The United States, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, claiming that the organization initiates attacks against civilians and ideologically supports such attacks by other similar organizations.
The United Kingdom, Australia and the Netherlands officially list only the External Security Organisation of Hezballah (ESO) as a proscribed organisation.
The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a 'terrorist organization', but does list Imad Mugniyah, who is widely believed to be heading the international branch of the Hezbollah. Russia does not consider Hezbollah as a terrorist organization .
In a non-binding resolution adopted by the European Parliament on 10 March 2005, The EU Parliament considered that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah and recommended that 'The EU Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them'. MEPs urged the EU Council to classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. However, the Council is reluctant to do so."
[from wikipedia]
To talk of gangs of "Hezbollah militias taking over states in America" is yet another in a long long line of flatulent idiocies from Dixie which prove that simple people who remain determined to see the world in binary, black and white images devoid of nuance should NEVER be allowed to implement America's foreign policy let alone determine it!
AnyOldIron
Atheist Missionary
Hizbollah are a terrorist organisation.
The IDF are a terrorist organisation.
The IDF are a terrorist organisation.