APP - Fracking for Gas

WinterBorn said:
SM, are you going to actually going to discuss the topic? Or will you continue posting sarcastic remarks, attacking posters and generally being a dickhead?
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Thanks for answering my question, SM. If you aren't going to discuss the actual topic, you are wasting bandwidth.
 
WinterBorn said:
Holy shit! They are pumping that into the ground and hoping they get it all back out?

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/00758.htm

There is the MSDS for anyone interested. SM, I would say this is a tad more serious than someone changing their oil in their driveway.
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SM tends to get lazy in these discussions. He doesn't want to take the time to have a fact based discussion so he reverts to ideological non-sense.

The fact is, no one is demonizing the petrochemical industry, that's just a straw man. My position is that it is in their own best interest to do a better job of managing these waste cause if the public loses confidence in their ability to do so then they would stare full regulation in the face.
 
WinterBorn said:
Depending on the substance, they certainly can be. And in this case, I would certainly question pumping it into the ground. Anytime an MSDS says "May be fatal if absorbed thru the skin" I'd rather not have it in my drinking water or in the water table.
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Or at least treat it. Elementary neutralization of acid waste streams is allowed with out a permit and it would keep drillers out of the hazardous waste regulatory loop, is relatively inexpensive and would certainly mitigate the hazard of HF exposure.
 
WinterBorn said:
Simce Mott is the biologist, you must be confused about my job. Not sure who is a "cost estimator for a po-dunk little GC". But I see that you are not arguing the actual topic, yet again.
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I'm also a CHMM with a Masters in EH&S management, biology was my undergrad major (also did some grad work in bio) and you gotta love it when some know it all engineer blows wind about hazardous waste.
 
Once again I point to the lack of control of the chemicals pumped into the shale. Without being able to control where the shale cracks and where the layers separate, it seems to me that the potential for releasing dangerous substances into the water table is fairly serious.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm also a CHMM with a Masters in EH&S management, biology was my undergrad major (also did some grad work in bio) and you gotta love it when some know it all engineer blows wind about hazardous waste.
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I have a degree in SecEd in comprehensive sciences. I took a few biology, geology and chemistry courses along the way. They kinda want you to take the classes before you teach them.
 
Damn Yankee said:
So you're a hard hat enforcer instead of a cost estimator. Either way its obvious that you know nothing about methane or hydrogeology.
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Your confusing natural gas with petroleum gas. Natural gas is only about 80% methane and contains about 20% of higher MW fractions like ethane. Petroleum gas is mostly propane and butane and contains fractions of aromatics like benzene, toluene and xylene.

Oh and by the way, the natural gas you purchase is a refined product. It has been scrubbed of both water and sulfides and is indeed odorless but natural gas coming out of a well head is contaminated with hydrogen sulfide (a highly toxic lipid soluble gas) which stinks to high heaven and is, I assure you, not odorless. So....why didn't you know that? This is common knowledge in the industry.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
SM tends to get lazy in these discussions. He doesn't want to take the time to have a fact based discussion so he reverts to ideological non-sense.

The fact is, no one is demonizing the petrochemical industry, that's just a straw man. My position is that it is in their own best interest to do a better job of managing these waste cause if the public loses confidence in their ability to do so then they would stare full regulation in the face.
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How ironic.

Of course its in their best interest to use as few expensive chemicals and recover them for re-use later on, as well as in their best interest not to get sued by a homeowner with a contaminated well.

You liberals want, as you put it, "full regulation". What that actually means is onerous paperwork and methods of extraction put together by desk jockeys like yourself rather than guys who actually work for a living and have to make a *gasp* profit, or go out of business. You use scare tactics to get the public to support you, and as typical it worked as our uneducated poster so aptly demonstrated.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Your confusing natural gas with petroleum gas. Natural gas is only about 80% methane and contains about 20% of higher MW fractions like ethane. Petroleum gas is mostly propane and butane and contains fractions of aromatics like benzene, toluene and xylene.

Oh and by the way, the natural gas you purchase is a refined product. It has been scrubbed of both water and sulfides and is indeed odorless but natural gas coming out of a well head is contaminated with hydrogen sulfide (a highly toxic lipid soluble gas) which stinks to high heaven and is, I assure you, not odorless. So....why didn't you know that? This is common knowledge in the industry.
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What makes you think I didn't know that nat gas in its raw form stank?
 
Damn Yankee said:
How ironic.

Of course its in their best interest to use as few expensive chemicals and recover them for re-use later on, as well as in their best interest not to get sued by a homeowner with a contaminated well.

You liberals want, as you put it, "full regulation". What that actually means is onerous paperwork and methods of extraction put together by desk jockeys like yourself rather than guys who actually work for a living and have to make a *gasp* profit, or go out of business. You use scare tactics to get the public to support you, and as typical it worked as our uneducated poster so aptly demonstrated.
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Again, more ignorace hid behind ideology. The return water from fracking is not re-used or recycled. Also, if you had took the time to even read 40 CFR you would know that it's not the language used by "Liberals" it's the language used by the law. What you want to do is evade the responsibility required to manage these materials responsibly and safely which, when done by competen persons, actually contributes to improving margins and the bottom line but if you were informed about this issue you would have all ready know that. Wouldn't you?

BTW, it may have excaped your notice but work in the public sector for a major corporation. Sure I fly a desk now but primarily as a broker earning profits having first spent nearly 20 years working in the field earning those profits. I never had any problem managing these hazardous materials/waste responsibly while simultaneously generating profits. Why are you so inept and incompetent that you can't?

You're ideology is just another example of you "Cons" being all for freedom and liberty until someone actually practices them. You're all for protecting property rights, as long as it's your property rights and your right wing good ole boys property that's being protected and fuck everybody's else's proprety rights.
 
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Damn Yankee said:
Duh. Like any other mined material it contains lots of shit; some burns, some doesn't.
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Were not talking trace components. Were talking upwards to 20% of the composition to which I retort, why did you tell Winter that it's 100% Methane and now your telling me you know it's not. Which is it?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Again, more ignorace hid behind ideology. The return water from fracking is not re-used or recycled. Also, if you had took the time to even read 40 CFR you would know that it's not the language used by "Liberals" it's the language used by the law. What you want to do is evade the responsibility required to manage these materials responsibly and safely which, when done by competen persons, actually contributes to improving margins and the bottom line but if you were informed about this issue you would have all ready know that. Wouldn't you?

BTW, it may have excaped your notice but work in the public sector for a major corporation. Sure I fly a desk now but primarily as a broker earning profits having first spent nearly 20 years working in the field earning those profits. I never had any problem managing these hazardous materials/waste responsibly while simultaneously generating profits. Why are you so inept and incompetent that you can't?

You're ideology is just another example of you "Cons" being all for freedom and liberty until someone actually practices them. You're all for protecting property rights, as long as it's your property rights and your right wing good ole boys property that's being protected and fuck everybody's else's proprety rights.
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LOL Right Moot, oil companies need the EPA to help them boost profits. What fucking planet are you on?
 
Damn Yankee said:
How ironic.

Of course its in their best interest to use as few expensive chemicals and recover them for re-use later on, as well as in their best interest not to get sued by a homeowner with a contaminated well.

You liberals want, as you put it, "full regulation". What that actually means is onerous paperwork and methods of extraction put together by desk jockeys like yourself rather than guys who actually work for a living and have to make a *gasp* profit, or go out of business. You use scare tactics to get the public to support you, and as typical it worked as our uneducated poster so aptly demonstrated.
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What a great nonresponse. Ignore the actual topic and try and make it about someone else. Your attempt to label us as "desk jockeys" is typical of your debating style. Nonsense and completely off the topic.
 
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