Greatest Persons in History

Threedee said:
Regarding the suggestions of Alexander and Caesar, I hate them both. Men who bring empire-building usually do not earn my respect. Caesar is my least favorite man in all of human history because he committed the single greatest sin: he killed a republic.
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Sulla was also made dictator for life and he basically killed all his political enemies, about 40 years before caesar. and again, it was augustus that was the first emperor. Augustus was the one that slowly accumulated more and more power and state functions under the title
 
Derp Derp said:
Sulla was also made dictator for life and he basically killed all his political enemies, about 40 years before caesar. and again, it was augustus that was the first emperor. Augustus was the one that slowly accumulated more and more power and state functions under the title
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Caesar was the first emperor in all but name. He came back into the city for the sole purpose of bringing down the old system.
 
RStringfield said:
Why did this turn into who is the greatest mass murderer? There is no accomplishment in war. Even a defensive war is no accomplishment as it can only be successful in preventing greater destruction.

I would say Washington was a great man, but it had little to do with battlefield success.
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Wrong. When the US is involved in war and her soldiers are allowed to prosecute it with full fury, the end result is always peace.
 
Threedee said:
Caesar was the first emperor in all but name. He came back into the city for the sole purpose of bringing down the old system.
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no.. he really wasn't. the was a lot of religious and state functions that weren't in his control but were later absorbed into the princeps by augustus
 
Southern Man said:
Wrong. When the US is involved in war and her soldiers are allowed to prosecute it with full fury, the end result is always peace.
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What has been accomplished by war? In the best case scenarios war can only stop a warrior state or war. It can only prevent further destruction.
 
Southern Man said:
Wrong. When the US is involved in war and her soldiers are allowed to prosecute it with full fury, the end result is always peace.
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The end result of the death of the human race will be peace. May all people like you be scourged from the earth, SM. God wills it, and he is an angry and vengeful God that will bring justice unto you and all conservatives.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Most Brits are like me, in fact I would consider myself mild.

You Americans have been watching too much Brideshead Revisited for your views on Brits. We are a very war-like people. Ask the Argies, or visit any city/town centre on a friday or saturday night.

Leonidas was a great man, but he lost, which is why he wouldn't be on a list with Caesar or Alexander.

Same reason Napoleon wouldn't make it. Lost twice.
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God will purge all evil war like people from the earth. May you burn in hell. I shall come down to the depths to torture you and other conservatives myself a few times, and shall have great joy in hearing the sweet melody of your cries.
 
Threedee said:
Regarding the suggestions of Alexander and Caesar, I hate them both. Men who bring empire-building usually do not earn my respect. Caesar is my least favorite man in all of human history because he committed the single greatest sin: he killed a republic.
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Jesus dude, where did you learn history? You sound like you studied under Dixie. The notion that Ceaser killed the Roman Republic tells me you just simply haven't studied much about the Republic. You need to go read Plutarch, Livy, Pliny.

Caesar did not kill the Roman Republic. The Republic collapsed due to it's own utter incompetency. If it had not been for Caesar it would have collapsed 40 years sooner then it did and it was Actually Octavian who put an end to the Republic, not Caesar.

The Roman Republic had become a corrupt oligarchy concerned about their own well fare and advancement and not the logistics of running a world wide Empire. The Decline of the Republic really dates back to the reforms of the brothers Grachii. It was actually the millitary reforms of Gauis Marius, though unintended, which undermined the Republic. Both he and Sulla employed large Armies who, because of the Senates ineptitude, were loyal to Marius and Sulla and not the Roman State. They set the precedent for the millitary and political events that eventually doomed the Republic. Caesar tried his damnedest to implement reforms that would have saved the Mos Maiorum and all of his reforms he contributed which could have saved the Republic (at least for a while). It was the Senate it self which gave Caesar his extra constitutional powers which were outside the mos maiorum and set the precedents which Octavian later used to end the Republic.

But that's a moot point anyways. The Republic had proven that an oligarchy designed and intended to manage the political and administrative affairs of a small city state were incapable of managing the affairs of a world wide empire the size of the Roman Empire.

Caesar even refers to this when he said, about Sulla's reforms, which were reactionary in the extreme and was intended to concentrate power in the old oligarchy and then retired, setting those reforms adrift, when he said that Sulla didn't know his political ABC's.

The facts are that Caesar was a universal genius who succeeded brilliantly in everything he did. From rising above humble origins, to his brilliance as a politician, to his genius as general who never lost a battle, to a brilliant author and writer of essay's and accounts. Caesar was one of the true great geniuses of human history and if you think he ended the Roman Republic, then you really don't know shit about the history of the Roman Republic.
 
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If Caesar really cared about the Republic, why did he ride back into the city when he was considered a criminal for his actions out on the battlefield?
 
Threedee said:
If Caesar really cared about the Republic, why did he ride back into the city when he was considered a criminal for his actions out on the battlefield?
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he didn't "care about the republic" so to speak,. He did play a part in the republic's decline. we are just saying it's spurious to say that caesar alone was the cause of the decline of the roman republic. He wasn't. He was just a small part, and the republic had been declining for 100 years or so before him, and continued to decline after he was dead.

here is a good brief summary on his motivations though, it's about 20 minutes long:

http://a11.video2.blip.tv/1070000622105/MikeDuncan-43InsertWellKnownIdionHere430.mp3?bri=1.8&brs=87
 
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Threedee said:
If Caesar really cared about the Republic, why did he ride back into the city when he was considered a criminal for his actions out on the battlefield?
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Dude, you make it sound like Caesar had a formal trial and was convicted. Everything that Caesar had done up unto where he crossed the Rubicon was constitutional. It was the small group of ultra-conservatives lead by Pompey, (who had assumed power unconstitutionally in the first place and had done so on more than one occasion) Bibulus and Cato (The Boni) who created the crises. The only thing Caesar wanted to do was to serve his second term as Consul in his proper year (10 years after his first term as Consul). It was this small group "The Boni", who has ussurped power unconstitutionally that started the civil war when they charged Caesar, falsely, with treason.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Dude, you make it sound like Caesar had a formal trial and was convicted. Everything that Caesar had done up unto where he crossed the Rubicon was constitutional. It was the small group of ultra-conservatives lead by Pompey, (who had assumed power unconstitutionally in the first place and had done so on more than one occasion) Bibulus and Cato (The Boni) who created the crises. The only thing Caesar wanted to do was to serve his second term as Consul in his proper year (10 years after his first term as Consul). It was this small group "The Boni", who has ussurped power unconstitutionally that started the civil war when they charged Caesar, falsely, with treason.
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I will admit to not having received a proper education in classical history. None in grade school and a few breadcrumbs in college, but based upon your knowledge of American, I know you're getting a lot of shit wrong, here...

:clink:
 
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