Greatest Persons in History

Threedee said:
I will admit to not having received a proper education in classical history. None in grade school and a few breadcrumbs in college, but based upon your knowledge of American, I know you're getting a lot of shit wrong, here...

:clink:
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That's because you're one of the Boni. :clink:

Hey look, when I study history I do my best to go to original source material. I haven't been tutored in history by lame revisionist like Dixie. You should try it.

and if you want to debate American history, I'll throw this challenge at you. I bet I know far more about American frontier history then you do.
 
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Derp Derp said:
he didn't "care about the republic" so to speak,. He did play a part in the republic's decline. we are just saying it's spurious to say that caesar alone was the cause of the decline of the roman republic. He wasn't. He was just a small part, and the republic had been declining for 100 years or so before him, and continued to decline after he was dead.

here is a good brief summary on his motivations though, it's about 20 minutes long:

http://a11.video2.blip.tv/1070000622105/MikeDuncan-43InsertWellKnownIdionHere430.mp3?bri=1.8&brs=87
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Didn't 3D say he was a history major in college? Ye gads. You've demonstrated a greater knowledge of the subject by far then he has.
 
Derp Derp said:
he didn't "care about the republic" so to speak,. He did play a part in the republic's decline. we are just saying it's spurious to say that caesar alone was the cause of the decline of the roman republic. He wasn't. He was just a small part, and the republic had been declining for 100 years or so before him, and continued to decline after he was dead.

here is a good brief summary on his motivations though, it's about 20 minutes long:

http://a11.video2.blip.tv/1070000622105/MikeDuncan-43InsertWellKnownIdionHere430.mp3?bri=1.8&brs=87
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BTW, that's an excellent link. :good4u:
 
Grind knows about Roman history a lot because he's listened to a huge 80+ and still continuing podcast on the subject that goes into extreme detail. I wouldn't expect a history major to know as much about Rome as grind.
 
Caboose said:
This is true, but the Greatness of Washington isn't his victory, it's his self imposed retirement. After the war he simply wanted to go back to a normal life. He also stepped down voluntarily after a second term as president. His greatness lie in his restraint and modesty.
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Caboose, have you heard of Cinncinatus?

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Threedee said:
Caesar was the first emperor in all but name. He came back into the city for the sole purpose of bringing down the old system.
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Not quite true.

Caesar marched on Rome because the Boni, the controlling section in the Senate, put him in an impossible situation, where he would have to accept exile and ignomy for actions that weren't dissimilar to Pompey's own in the East.

If the Senate had allowed Caesar to return in peace and stand in absentia for election as Consul, he wouldn't have marched.

If you want to blame someone for the death of the Roman Republic, look to Cato, Bibulus, Metellus Scipio and Pompey.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Dude, you make it sound like Caesar had a formal trial and was convicted. Everything that Caesar had done up unto where he crossed the Rubicon was constitutional. It was the small group of ultra-conservatives lead by Pompey, (who had assumed power unconstitutionally in the first place and had done so on more than one occasion) Bibulus and Cato (The Boni) who created the crises. The only thing Caesar wanted to do was to serve his second term as Consul in his proper year (10 years after his first term as Consul). It was this small group "The Boni", who has ussurped power unconstitutionally that started the civil war when they charged Caesar, falsely, with treason.
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Very well said!
 
Derp Derp said:
the guy does an amazing podcast. It's released each week and is about 20 minutes long each time. He covers rome from the very beginning all the way to the end. Right now he's around the fall of comodus.

http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com
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It's obvious he's using original source material. I thought his analysis of Caesar was spot on. Caesar did some things that were of pure genius but he also left an ocean of dead do defend his dignitas, which was not very admirable at all but he wasn't, as 3D stated, responsible for the end of the Republic though he certainly played a significant part.

As for being nice to 3D, I'm not being mean. When he makes silly comments, he should be prepared to defend them.
 
Threedee said:
I wasn't educated in NE, as Grind was...
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Well since you haven't been handicapped in your education like Grind you have no excuse then, do you? ;)

That was an excellent link Grind posted but, even though it requires more work, you're still better off going to original source material or as close as you can get to them, to study historical events. Never trust the opinions of others, even higly respected academics (or even the ancients sources for that matter) as opinions are like assholes. We all gottem and they all stink.

There are some excellent British sites that have translated the ancient sources from Greek and Latin to modern English.
 
Messenger of God said:
Grind knows about Roman history a lot because he's listened to a huge 80+ and still continuing podcast on the subject that goes into extreme detail. I wouldn't expect a history major to know as much about Rome as grind.
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Don't make excuses. I was able to listen to about 20 of them last night alone cause I was stuck home sick.
 
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