Here's why the soft civil war will go hot...

[Minister of Truth]

The CSA did commit many acts of war. The first overt act, however, was Lincoln's, by resupplying troops in a foreign nation without that nation's authorization.
That is an act of war. The South Carolina militia fired upon them in response to defend their territory.

America gets to deploy troops to its bases, and doesn't require the likes of Confederates to tell it how to manage its sovereign land.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Lincoln did not lose the War of Secession.

He also didn't start the war by firing on sovereign American land.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Since the Senate was designed to represent the interests of the States as States, and the House designed to represent the interests of the people directly (at least until the 17th amendment), all merging two States would do is reduce representation in the Senate, while increasing it in the House.

Splitting a State would do the reverse.

But we are speculating in a vacuum. The split a State into two requires the vote of the State involved, a new constitution for the new State drafted, the original constitution of the other State modified, and the whole thing approved by Congress.

Not likely.

Well, we have split Vermont from New Hampshire and Maine from Massachusetts.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Minimum wage laws are price controls on wages. It is the government telling you how much you have to pay for wages. That's fascism. Price controls never work. You have it completely backwards.

if anything its a tad of socialism. fascism is when corporate and government goals are aligned to the detriment of the common man.

you dont know things.

 

[Into the Night]

There were definitely states who waited until the CSA attacked America.

They didn't attack America. They ARE part of America.

 

[Into the Night]

Then why did the CSA attack America?

They didn't.

 

[Into the Night]

America gets to deploy troops to its bases, and doesn't require the likes of Confederates to tell it how to manage its sovereign land.

America doesn't have troops. It is a continent. The United States does not get to maintain bases in a foreign country without permission from that foreign government.

 

[Into the Night]

He also didn't start the war by firing on sovereign American land.

I am going to assume you mean the United States for 'America', since you are obviously lost.

The land in question was not U.S. land at the time.

 

[Into the Night]

if anything its a tad of socialism. fascism is when corporate and government goals are aligned to the detriment of the common man.

you dont know things.

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU that is illiterate here.
Fascism IS a form of socialism. Price controls placed on businesses IS socialism. It is also fascism.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU that is illiterate here.
Fascism IS a form of socialism. Price controls placed on businesses IS socialism. It is also fascism.

no. wrong. fascism is government influence favoring corporations, and denying reality about free markets. the rising tide does not raise all ships. the labor movement was necessary in this country. corporations were dragged kicking and screaming to the 8 hr. day, no child labor, sick leave, unemployment, overtime rates. now they want to pretend all that happened based on the magic hand of the free market. that's all bullshit. you're a deluded propagandist.

 

[Minister of Truth]

They didn't attack America. They ARE part of America.

They declared themselves to be a separate country. They were no more "American" than are Canadians or Argentinians.

We didn't permit Revolutionary France and Great Britain to impress our sailors, Imperial Germany to attack our shipping, or Imperial Japan to attack our naval bases. There's no reason why we should have allowed the CSA to attack our forts, just because there are still people who are bitter that America won that particular war.

 

[Minister of Truth]

I am going to assume you mean the United States for 'America', since you are obviously lost.

The land in question was not U.S. land at the time.

There was even paperwork proving that it was, in fact, sovereign American land.

 

[Into the Night]

no. wrong. fascism is government influence favoring corporations, and denying reality about free markets.

Nope. You still have it wrong. Favoring corporations in general is not fascism. Free markets exist. You can't kill them. They are immortal.

the rising tide does not raise all ships.

Yes it does.

the labor movement was necessary in this country.

Not government. The necessity of it is a different conversation.

corporations were dragged kicking and screaming to the 8 hr. day, no child labor, sick leave, unemployment, overtime rates.

Laws forcing an 8 hour day is fascism. Laws preventing labor under a certain age is fascism. No law forces sick leave. Unemployment is a tax, not fascism. Overtime rates is not a law. Not fascism.

now they want to pretend all that happened based on the magic hand of the free market.

It did, in the case of establishing 8 hour days, providing sick leave, an paying overtime rates.

that's all bullshit.

Nope. It's history, dude. You are just denying history.

you're a deluded propagandist.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

They declared themselves to be a separate country.

True.

They were no more "American" than are Canadians or Argentinians.

Both Canadians and Argentinians ARE Americans.

We didn't permit Revolutionary France and Great Britain to impress our sailors, Imperial Germany to attack our shipping, or Imperial Japan to attack our naval bases.

We didn't have a choice. They each attacked those things. Started a war, too.

There's no reason why we should have allowed the CSA to attack our forts,

The fort was not a U.S. fort at the time. It was occupied by U.S. troops without the permission of the foreign country. It is no different than when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. The foreign country shot at the troops illegally occupying land owned by the foreign country.

just because there are still people who are bitter that America won that particular war.

America didn't win any war. America is a continent. The United States won that war. Personally, I'm glad it resolved that way. It meant an end to slavery (at least legally). It could've been handled better by Lincoln and the Republican Party, but that would've taken longer. Slavery was already dying as an institution. The war that Lincoln started might not have been necessary.

In the end, it's all history now. It really doesn't make sense to rehash it. Lincoln is dead, the Confederates lost, the United States is back together, slavery is ended legally. It's done.

 

[Into the Night]

There was even paperwork proving that it was, in fact, sovereign American land.

There is no government called 'America' to be sovereign over any land.
Paperwork is not a proof. When South Carolina became an independent nation, any paperwork or agreements with the United States become void.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They declared themselves to be a separate country. They were no more "American" than are Canadians or Argentinians.

We didn't permit Revolutionary France and Great Britain to impress our sailors, Imperial Germany to attack our shipping, or Imperial Japan to attack our naval bases. There's no reason why we should have allowed the CSA to attack our forts, just because there are still people who are bitter that America won that particular war.

You can't have it both ways, dude: Was the CSA a separate country or not? Pick one.

None of those countries were claiming back their territory leased or borrowed by the US.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Nope. You still have it wrong. Favoring corporations in general is not fascism. Free markets exist. You can't kill them. They are immortal.

Yes it does.

Not government. The necessity of it is a different conversation.

Laws forcing an 8 hour day is fascism. Laws preventing labor under a certain age is fascism. No law forces sick leave. Unemployment is a tax, not fascism. Overtime rates is not a law. Not fascism.

It did, in the case of establishing 8 hour days, providing sick leave, an paying overtime rates.

Nope. It's history, dude. You are just denying history.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Minister of Truth]

True.

Both Canadians and Argentinians ARE Americans.

We didn't have a choice. They each attacked those things. Started a war, too.

The fort was not a U.S. fort at the time. It was occupied by U.S. troops without the permission of the foreign country. It is no different than when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. The foreign country shot at the troops illegally occupying land owned by the foreign country.

America didn't win any war. America is a continent. The United States won that war. Personally, I'm glad it resolved that way. It meant an end to slavery (at least legally). It could've been handled better by Lincoln and the Republican Party, but that would've taken longer. Slavery was already dying as an institution. The war that Lincoln Confederates started might not have been necessary.

In the end, it's all history now. It really doesn't make sense to rehash it. Lincoln is dead, the Confederates lost, the United States is back together, slavery is ended legally. It's done.

Did Ft Sumter vote to secede from America?

Also, what do we call citizens of the US, again?

It's mostly done. There are still those people who hate America and pine for the Confederacy. Wish they would just leave and move to Europe, or someplace. And to stop fucking lying.

 

[Minister of Truth]

There is no government called 'America' to be sovereign over any land.
Paperwork is not a proof. When South Carolina became an independent nation, any paperwork or agreements with the United States become void.

Are you saying that southerners are incapable of being honest and faithful to the contracts that they enter into? Because, I can accept that assertion.

 

[Minister of Truth]

You can't have it both ways, dude: Was the CSA a separate country or not? Pick one.

None of those countries were claiming back their territory leased or borrowed by the US.

Yes, which is why I don't refer to the as American, which is a term reserved for citizens of this beloved country.

The Confederates were attempting to commit theft, as the land was sovereign, and neither leased nor borrowed.