Identical twins, one gay, one ain't

Except in this case we are talking about identical twins that ended up as very similar adults, with one exception- one's gay, one ain't.

And the things that can effect the fetus in the womb could have effected one more than the other.

Despite them being identical twins, there are often differences. Weight is one thing that has been pointed out.







(I thought we could get back on topic)
 
You need to make up your mind which lie to stick with. Insult, or joke?

Why would you assume they are mutually exclusive? You insulted me, so I responded with an insult. It was a joke because it was meant to be funny. The fact that you went ballistic was even more amusing.
 
LMAO!

Oh now you want to discuss my penis size? After inviting me to tell all about my sex life?

Someone is fixated. :rolleyes:
You're the one who volunteers you and your wife's personal information and sinful sexual practices. If you want to discus your pecker and how it fits between that gap in her dentures than by all means do so. Just don't PM me with any further sexual requests- anyone here will tell you that I ain't interested. *shrug*
 
You're the one who volunteers you and your wife's personal information and sinful sexual practices. If you want to discus your pecker and how it fits between that gap in her dentures than by all means do so. Just don't PM me with any further sexual requests- anyone here will tell you that I ain't interested. *shrug*

You are the one who told me to feel free to post all about my sex life.

I haven't discussed our sexual practices. I simply admitted that my wife and I enjoy oral sex. If you consider that "personal information and sinful sexual practices", it says more about you than me.

And now, since you have talked about my wife, should I go on a verbal rampage about ripping your face off??

You claim you don't read your PMs, now you claim I am sending you sexual requests in PMs. Make up your mind, which is it? lmao

And BTW, if I say "Fuck you", its an insult, not a "sexual request".
 
Why would you assume they are mutually exclusive? You insulted me, so I responded with an insult. It was a joke because it was meant to be funny. The fact that you went ballistic was even more amusing.

Actually my post that set you off didn't insult you. In fact your name wasn't even mentioned. Your response was then to make a sexually based insult on a woman, someone who've you've never met or that I've never discussed. Prove me wrong.

And you talk about someone giving an asymmetrical response. :lolup:
 
Actually my post that set you off didn't insult you. In fact your name wasn't even mentioned. Your response was then to make a sexually based insult on a woman, someone who've you've never met or that I've never discussed. Prove me wrong.

And you talk about someone giving an asymmetrical response. :lolup:

:cof1:
 
You are the one who told me to feel free to post all about my sex life.

I haven't discussed our sexual practices. I simply admitted that my wife and I enjoy oral sex. If you consider that "personal information and sinful sexual practices", it says more about you than me.

And now, since you have talked about my wife, should I go on a verbal rampage about ripping your face off??

You claim you don't read your PMs, now you claim I am sending you sexual requests in PMs. Make up your mind, which is it? lmao

And BTW, if I say "Fuck you", its an insult, not a "sexual request".

As I said earlier, I simply showed you the cliff- you chose to jump off of it. You've since admitted that your wife sucks your cock, and since you've gone public with that fact it is something that the public can call you on. What she does to you has nothing to do with me or anyone that I have a relationship with.

PMs that you send me may be read or not. Its my choosing and you have no control over that whatsoever. But again, I'm not interested in your sexual advances so you're wasting your time.
 
As I said earlier, I simply showed you the cliff- you chose to jump off of it. You've since admitted that your wife sucks your cock, and since you've gone public with that fact it is something that the public can call you on. What she does to you has nothing to do with me or anyone that I have a relationship with.

PMs that you send me may be read or not. Its my choosing and you have no control over that whatsoever. But again, I'm not interested in your sexual advances so you're wasting your time.

I jumped off a cliff? That is ridiculous. I did nothing of the kind. In fact, your response to my "revelation" has shown more about you.

You may be wishing I would send you sexual advances, but we both know it ain't happening.

Your attempts at insults are amusing. :pke:
 
From: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826613.900-gay-brains-are-hardwired-at-birth.html

"BRAIN scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is down to biology rather than choice. Tantalisingly, the scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggression resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most were based on people's responses to sexually driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain features that are probably fixed at birth. "That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic, whose results appear in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0801566105).

Firstly, they used MRI scans to measure the overall volume and shapes of brains in a group of 90 volunteers consisting of 25 heterosexuals and 20 homosexuals of each gender. Most notably, they found that lesbian women and straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger than the left. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.

Secondly, they used scans based on positron emission tomography (PET) to measure blood flow to the amygdala, an almond-shaped region found in both lobes of the brain that plays a key role in emotional reactions. The images revealed how the amygdalas are connected to other parts of the brain, giving clues to how this might influence behaviour.

They found that the patterns of connectivity in gay men matched those of straight women, and vice versa (see Diagram). In straight women and gay men, the signals from the amygdala ran mainly into the regions of the brain that mediate mood and anxiety.

This finding is significant, says Savic, as it might explain why women are three times as likely as men to suffer from mood disorders or depression. Gay men have higher rates of depression too, she says, but it's difficult to know whether this is down to biology, or having to deal with homophobia.

In straight men and lesbians, the amygdala fed their signals mainly into the sensorimotor cortex and the striatum, regions of the brain that trigger "fright or flight" in response to fear. "It's a more action-related response than in straight women," says Savic.

"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary University of London. "The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."

"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences between straight and gay men in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus.

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are genetic, or result from unusually high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone."



It seems there are physiological differences in brain structures between gays and straights.

I think Thorn posted something similar.
 
The word "twin" does not show up in the article.

No it does not. But we have already discussed the fact that twins can get differenct amounts of blood and that they have measureable differences.

But lets go over what has been established.

1) Twins can have as much as a 25% difference in weight.
2) Twins can get different amounts of nutrients and access to the mother's blood.
3) A fetus can be effected by differences in hormones from the mother.

So the fact that one twin is straight and the other is gay does not automatically eliminate homosexuality as something someone is born with.
 
From: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826613.900-gay-brains-are-hardwired-at-birth.html

"BRAIN scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is down to biology rather than choice. Tantalisingly, the scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggression resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most were based on people's responses to sexually driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain features that are probably fixed at birth. "That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic, whose results appear in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0801566105).

Firstly, they used MRI scans to measure the overall volume and shapes of brains in a group of 90 volunteers consisting of 25 heterosexuals and 20 homosexuals of each gender. Most notably, they found that lesbian women and straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger than the left. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.

Secondly, they used scans based on positron emission tomography (PET) to measure blood flow to the amygdala, an almond-shaped region found in both lobes of the brain that plays a key role in emotional reactions. The images revealed how the amygdalas are connected to other parts of the brain, giving clues to how this might influence behaviour.

They found that the patterns of connectivity in gay men matched those of straight women, and vice versa (see Diagram). In straight women and gay men, the signals from the amygdala ran mainly into the regions of the brain that mediate mood and anxiety.

This finding is significant, says Savic, as it might explain why women are three times as likely as men to suffer from mood disorders or depression. Gay men have higher rates of depression too, she says, but it's difficult to know whether this is down to biology, or having to deal with homophobia.

In straight men and lesbians, the amygdala fed their signals mainly into the sensorimotor cortex and the striatum, regions of the brain that trigger "fright or flight" in response to fear. "It's a more action-related response than in straight women," says Savic.

"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary University of London. "The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."

"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences between straight and gay men in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus.

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are genetic, or result from unusually high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone."



It seems there are physiological differences in brain structures between gays and straights.

I think Thorn posted something similar.

The problem I have with this research are several.

What were the controls used in the research? Were they double blind?

Is the sampling free from statistical bias? Is the sampling size large enough?

Are the researchers introducing bias because these are the results they desire to see?

Again, I'm not rejecting the biological cause for homosexuality but I have several problems with it.

#1. The science behind genetic or biological causes of homosexuality has a long ways to go to prove itself.

#2. The evidence for homosexuality being learned behavior is far greater.

#3. The genetic/biological approach assumes that homosexuality is different, abnormal or special behavior that is not enviornmentally or culturally influenced. The truth is, all sexual behavior is normal, biologically speaking. This places doing research on homosexual behavior as having a genetic or biological cause on shaky scientific ground to begin with.

So though, IMHO, I think the evidence for homosexual behavior being learned behavior is far greater then the biological/genetic evidence that does not mean that gay behavior is something one can always just choose to do, like turing on or off a switch (though in some cases this would be true.). Such a supposition would be rediculous and defies the known facts.
 
No it does not. But we have already discussed the fact that twins can get differenct amounts of blood and that they have measureable differences.

But lets go over what has been established.

1) Twins can have as much as a 25% difference in weight.
2) Twins can get different amounts of nutrients and access to the mother's blood.
3) A fetus can be effected by differences in hormones from the mother.

So the fact that one twin is straight and the other is gay does not automatically eliminate homosexuality as something someone is born with.


True but a twin can also be exposed to different environmenal, social and cultural conditions that can have an even more profound effect on behavior than biology. Though, again, this does not discount biological influences at all.
 
The problem I have with this research are several.

What were the controls used in the research? Were they double blind?

Is the sampling free from statistical bias? Is the sampling size large enough?

Are the researchers introducing bias because these are the results they desire to see?

Again, I'm not rejecting the biological cause for homosexuality but I have several problems with it.

#1. The science behind genetic or biological causes of homosexuality has a long ways to go to prove itself.

#2. The evidence for homosexuality being learned behavior is far greater.

#3. The genetic/biological approach assumes that homosexuality is different, abnormal or special behavior that is not enviornmentally or culturally influenced. The truth is, all sexual behavior is normal, biologically speaking. This places doing research on homosexual behavior as having a genetic or biological cause on shaky scientific ground to begin with.

So though, IMHO, I think the evidence for homosexual behavior being learned behavior is far greater then the biological/genetic evidence that does not mean that gay behavior is something one can always just choose to do, like turing on or off a switch (though in some cases this would be true.). Such a supposition would be rediculous and defies the known facts.

I think there is sufficient documented evidence to show the causes may be a combination of the two.

It seems as though it boils down to one saide claiming it is a choice and the other saying there is no choice involved. Every gay person I have ever asked said they were the way they are from as far back as they can remember. The studies (like the one I posted here) that have examined the brains have seen documentable differences.
 
True but a twin can also be exposed to different environmenal, social and cultural conditions that can have an even more profound effect on behavior than biology. Though, again, this does not discount biological influences at all.

So what you are saying is that it could be either environmental or biological?
 
No it does not. But we have already discussed the fact that twins can get differenct amounts of blood and that they have measureable differences.

But lets go over what has been established.

1) Twins can have as much as a 25% difference in weight.
2) Twins can get different amounts of nutrients and access to the mother's blood.
3) A fetus can be effected by differences in hormones from the mother.

So the fact that one twin is straight and the other is gay does not automatically eliminate homosexuality as something someone is born with.
Actually, its been established that these tow twin are identical in nearly every way. *shrug*
 
Actually, its been established that these tow twin are identical in nearly every way. *shrug*

In other words, there are differences?

There are differences. The differences in the weight (and those are significant differences) show that one of the twins gets something the other does not.
 
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