Rape: Do victims of rape share any responsibility?

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christiefan915 said:
I did read what you wrote and I replied to the part I disagreed with. The part where you say a woman is a taunter, a teaser and a bitch who's sending mixed messages because she wears sexy clothing. Where do you draw the line between simple flirting and sending mixed messages?
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No, you posted that my comment about how a woman dresses was saying she deserved to be raped. My comment was about a specific kind of woman who dresses to elicit a sexual response and then acts shocked by a mans reaction. It was a simple statement no need to muddy it up.

Does a woman play a part in her rape, or worded another way, does she have any responsibility? No, never. But there are women who enjoy putting their sexuality out there taunting and teasing men, who then seem shocked that men are confused by the message of "look at me and think about sex, but don't touch"; those kind of women are bitches.
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Abraxas said:
Don't you think that performers like Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus et al have a lot to answer for, what kind of message are they sending out to prepubescent girls?
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Something like 'I have no talent so Im hoping that being a whore will pay the bills until I get old and madonnaesque'.
 
christiefan915 said:
Why shouldn't women enjoy putting their sexuality on display? Men do it all the time and get applauded for it. Taunting and teasing isn't a one-way street. When do you ever hear about a man getting raped by a woman because he wore tight jeans that highlighted his junk and she couldn't control herself? Men call that "getting lucky", not rape.
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This gets me stalked all the time.
 
Joseph Plunkett said:
This gets me stalked all the time.
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Men should return to the wearing of a codpiece.

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XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
No, you posted that my comment about how a woman dresses was saying she deserved to be raped. My comment was about a specific kind of woman who dresses to elicit a sexual response and then acts shocked by a mans reaction. It was a simple statement no need to muddy it up.
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I'm having trouble with your comment about "dressing to elicit a sexual response." Maybe that means something at the Playboy Mansion or the Mustang Ranch, but for partying or clubbing, not so much. Where specifically do you draw the line between sexy and slutty in women's clothing? Because I think most of it's in the eye of the beholder.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes but what about the situation which I suspect happens a lot where a woman and a man are both drunk, have sex and then, for various reasons, she regrets it and cries rape. Those reasons can include embarrassment, guilt, shame or even revulsion.
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I bet that revulsion thing applied to you a lot didn't it tommy?
 
christiefan915 said:
I'm having trouble with your comment about "dressing to elicit a sexual response." Maybe that means something at the Playboy Mansion or the Mustang Ranch, but for partying or clubbing, not so much. Where specifically do you draw the line between sexy and slutty in women's clothing? Because I think most of it's in the eye of the beholder.
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This is also a good question for tommy, he was going on yesterday about how women should "sober clothes." Whatever those are. He couldn't tell me what he meant by that. Maybe he'll tell you!
 
If you have have a problem with scanty attire on women at nightclubs, then you're probably the sort of person who should stick to high-end clubs that have dress codes.
 
christiefan915 said:
I'm having trouble with your comment about "dressing to elicit a sexual response." Maybe that means something at the Playboy Mansion or the Mustang Ranch, but for partying or clubbing, not so much. Where specifically do you draw the line between sexy and slutty in women's clothing? Because I think most of it's in the eye of the beholder.
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You seem to want to have trouble. A woman is free to dress sexually or slutty. But those that do don't get go complain when men react sexually. Note I'm not talking rape, only referring to the sexual come on. I also never mentioned any particular environment. Seriously, it was not a complicated statement.
 
Joseph Plunkett said:
The law will continue to make determinations on a case-by-case basis as to whether or not an incident constitutes date rape and/or consent. In the big picture, though, I do believe that the rapist bears 100% of the blame.
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I agree, just as the one who steals bread to feed his family is still culpable as a thief but what about the person that is completely unaware or perhaps intentionally unaware?
 
Damocles said:
Any fool who would try to tell me that it is "partially" my daughter's (wife's, sister's) fault because she just looked so good and shouldn't ever go out without a special escort. To that I'd say F**K YOU as I took "liberties" that would harm my karma.
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I think you're getting that impression from someone else here. My argument is about people not taking precaution in a volatile situation. As I made it clear with my Bloods and Crips example. If I know Crips live down my street and I know that wearing the color red despite having no gang affiliations is bad and could cause me harm and despite knowing those dangers I continue to do so and I am accosted and hurt, how am I not at least partially responsible? I'm not responsible for someone harming me because I didn't initiate any danger, but the fact that THEY don't know my intentions but I KNOW the dangers how can I not be culpable at least to me being in that situation?
 
Sun Devil said:
In this discussion I will play the unpopular stance of being a "Devil's Advocate." Since there are varying circumstances of how victims are raped, I'll be specific and focus on college most specifically college women.
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I believe someone here owes me an apology.....

(Meltdown Alert!)

For Fuck sake people! Did I not fucking say in the above paragraph that I'm playing the unpopular role of Motherfucking "Devil's Advocate?" If I truly believed in all the Bullshit I wrote thus far I'd have no problem saying it. Obviously people ought to know me well enough around here that I have no problem speaking my mind. But if Darla, Christie, Zapp, and the rest whom I thought were my friends agreed on every fucking thing conversation would be motherfucking dull and boring that is why I always make the disclaimer of "HEY,I'm playing DEVIL'S ADVOCATE!"

As far as people telling me to grow up, look I'm 32 years old today (well on April 15th) and I've made many steps here to try to bridge the gap between myself and others because I understand we are all different with different views but I try to remain respectful to people even among those that annoy me. As long as I've been here I have no insulted anyone's heritage, their culture, race, religion, or gender. But the fact that some of you overlook that vital piece of the disclaimer I made and immediately went to race, is very disappointing.


This is the very reason why African-Americans will continue to have certain animosity because WE know that if we get to that sport where we piss you off enough either you call us "Nigger" or you'll make some racial based comment. Outside of my rag tag back and forth with USF, at the end of the day I have nothing against the man (even though some of his views are idiotic). I made the disclaimer because I wanted to remain clear that whatever I say here are not my views but I want people to get a perspective and learn to argue against unpopular views. But if people are too emotional to where you cannot read vital pieces of information then you don't need to be on a chat board.

Funny, I'm here at the USC library writing this and everyone here is looking at me like I'm a goddamn robot because I'm typing so fast. That usually happens when I'm pissed off. I'm disappointed and in that I think it's time for me to retire.
 
Sun Devil said:
I believe someone here owes me an apology.....

(Meltdown Alert!)

For Fuck sake people! Did I not fucking say in the above paragraph that I'm playing the unpopular role of Motherfucking "Devil's Advocate?" If I truly believed in all the Bullshit I wrote thus far I'd have no problem saying it. Obviously people ought to know me well enough around here that I have no problem speaking my mind. But if Darla, Christie, Zapp, and the rest whom I thought were my friends agreed on every fucking thing conversation would be motherfucking dull and boring that is why I always make the disclaimer of "HEY,I'm playing DEVIL'S ADVOCATE!"

As far as people telling me to grow up, look I'm 32 years old today (well on April 15th) and I've made many steps here to try to bridge the gap between myself and others because I understand we are all different with different views but I try to remain respectful to people even among those that annoy me. As long as I've been here I have no insulted anyone's heritage, their culture, race, religion, or gender. But the fact that some of you overlook that vital piece of the disclaimer I made and immediately went to race, is very disappointing.


This is the very reason why African-Americans will continue to have certain animosity because WE know that if we get to that sport where we piss you off enough either you call us "Nigger" or you'll make some racial based comment. Outside of my rag tag back and forth with USF, at the end of the day I have nothing against the man (even though some of his views are idiotic). I made the disclaimer because I wanted to remain clear that whatever I say here are not my views but I want people to get a perspective and learn to argue against unpopular views. But if people are too emotional to where you cannot read vital pieces of information then you don't need to be on a chat board.

Funny, I'm here at the USC library writing this and everyone here is looking at me like I'm a goddamn robot because I'm typing so fast. That usually happens when I'm pissed off. I'm disappointed and in that I think it's time for me to retire.
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There definitely seems to be a 'team' type atmosphere here (and other political boards I've visited) where there isn't a whole of discussion/disagreement among those who share similar beliefs. I know I've caught myself falling victim to that. I hope you stick around and keep posting man (if by retire you meant for the board for good as opposed to just tonight). Happy Birthday as well. Fight On.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes but what about the situation which I suspect happens a lot where a woman and a man are both drunk, have sex and then, for various reasons, she regrets it and cries rape. Those reasons can include embarrassment, guilt, shame or even revulsion.
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Alcohol is the most used date rape drug. Women do not usually drink to excess but men will urge them to drink to excess and will encourage them to drink to excess. I can see why women would find you repulsive and I simply can't conceive of any woman who wouldn't!
 
Sun Devil said:
I understand this may be a touchy for some here who were actual victims of rape, and in that understanding, I apologize, but I wanted to make a discussion thread where we can all discuss this, and also allow Abraxas' position to be further clarified. In this discussion I will play the unpopular stance of being a "Devil's Advocate." Since there are varying circumstances of how victims are raped, I'll be specific and focus on college most specifically college women. Disclaimer I'm doing this because I wont have much time to participate so I'd like to get this subject out the way

Are college women responsible for being raped?

My answer:

Gullibility and ignorance aren't excuses to not know a volitile environment. I think there are circumstances where we've become at least partially responsible to what befalls us, the question is at what point do we determine if a woman is truly raped? An accusation? A mark? A bruise? I suppose when it gets to that point an arbitrator is to decide but it appears are so-called "rape culture" in turn, is also rape sensitive. As you may recall recently a Florida athlete got off on a rape charge. Although we don't want to discourage actual rape victims to be truthful.

So what about the pretty young college woman who dresses in provocative clothing that attends a fraternity party where alcohol is served and is sexually assaulted? The popular opinion is that she is not responsible for the man's actions. True, she isn't. A criminal who plans us harm we as the victim of that harm do not share in the reasoning behind that harm, but do we share in the responsibility of not being AWARE of possible harm?

I fully believe if a woman is attending a function where alcohol is involved, she needs to take an active role in preparing to be safe, bring friends, know drinking limits etc. If the friends are as irresponsible as the young woman then in a situation where rape happens she in actuality have placedherself in a situation where there is a hazard.
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Playing the "Devil's Advocate" on this topic is pure stupidity! Especially since there are already plenty of ignorant bastard's here who already blame the victims for their rapes and write constantly about how 13 year old's deserve to be raped because they weren't virgin's and so on. Haven't you read my fucking signature? You should really have better sense than this!
 
Sun Devil said:
I agree, just as the one who steals bread to feed his family is still culpable as a thief but what about the person that is completely unaware or perhaps intentionally unaware?
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I think it would be refreshing if someone actually stole a loaft of bread. Thievery these days is so often just electronics and valuables. If someone breaks into your home and actually raids your pantry, it's to grab baking soda and other drug-related additives. Grocery stores primarily just lose wine and liquor.
 
Dantès said:
Alcohol is the most used date rape drug. Women do not usually drink to excess but men will urge them to drink to excess and will encourage them to drink to excess. I can see why women would find you repulsive and I simply can't conceive of any woman who wouldn't!
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Women drink to excess plenty. They just look better doing it. It's still not their intention for it to be used against them.
 
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