Red States Rule: Please Enlist

That is honoring them. The troops are not pro-war, they want to come home. They keep telling you that but you keep ignoring them. Why do you hate the troops?

Support the Troops, Bring Them Home, Today!

face it, Darla, rsr is a blood thirsty war monger who wants our troops in harms' way as long as he doesn't have to go...
 
I think it is instructive to consider how the some on the right - like RSR - frame this debate about the wisdom of our continued involvement in the affairs of the Iraqi people: "Republicans want to "FIGHT" and “WIN” in Iraq" versus "Democrats want to "surrender" and “accept defeat” in Iraq".

There is, however, a constantly shifting definition of "winning", and, therefore, an equally shifting definition of "being defeated". At its very essence is the idea that our enemies are making some stand in Iraq and we must "win" against them there or they will have "defeated" us. This view of this involvement in Iraq as some sort of time constrained contest is artificial and tends to skew our perspective away from reality. This is not some global sporting event and we are not in the third quarter of a fixed time game. The enemy seeks to outlast us - not on the battlefield in Iraq, but in the timeless worldwide war of ideas and influence. In that war, we "win" when America's social and economic interest is felt in the world and those interests prevail in the world. We certainly need to look at that war with a wider, longer view.... we want to WIN that war of influence and ideas over the next century.

Is it really sensible to choose Iraq as the hill upon which we will die this decade? Can't we admit that we made an error in elevating Iraq into some symbolic preeminence that it does not deserve? Our war is against Islamic extremism... and that war will not be won militarily, but socially, politically, and most importantly, economically. Our war is not against Iraqi insurgents who really want to fight one another in a turf battle for oil and a 1200 year old grudge match over Islamic interpretation and ascendancy. Let them settle their own intramural differences without our continued muddying influence.

Those of us with a military background know full well that, in the major wars that engulfed our planet in the last century, America lost its share of BATTLES...America retreated from individual battlefields when it became clear that continuing to fight on that spot was not helping us win the larger victory.... when it became clear that that was not the hill we should chose to die on.... but America prevailed in those large wars because we did NOT let ourselves become obsessed with winning any one battle at the expense of overall victory.

I am all for fighting and winning the war against Islamic extremism. I know full well that our military will play a role at times in that war, but that ideas and economics will play a greater role. From the very outset, I have been against the action in Iraq, not because I didn't want to fight and win the war against Islamic extremism, but because I did not believe that our planned action in Iraq advanced our cause in that larger war.

Saddam was an asshole.... but he was an unwitting ally of ours in our war against Islamic extremism. The vision of Islamic extremists has no place for secular nation states like Jordan or Syria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia OR IRAQ. Saddam, therefore, had no vested interest in promoting or assisting an ideology that was bent on his own destruction.

Saddam was an asshole, but he did three things very well - three things that we would LOVE for someone to be doing better than we are doing them today:

1. he kept Islamic extremists from gaining bases of operation in Iraq (and don't start about Saddam's support for terrorists - his support was solely for NATIONALIST terror organizations and, as repugnant as they were and are, they are not the same as the Islamic extremists that threaten us).

2. He kept Sunnis and Shi'ites from slaughtering one another en masse in a country that was unique in its mixed population of Shiites and Sunnis at the edge of Arabia and Persia.... and

3. He acted as a foil against Iranian regional hegemony.

We need to admit that we will NEVER be able to do those three things as well as Saddam did them and that we fucked up by removing him from power and forcing ourselves to occupy a large portion of our military, our economy, and our diplomatic energy in trying to keep Iraq from boiling over when we could much more effectively use those assets to our benefit elsewhere in the world.

No one wants DEFEAT in the war on Islamic extremism, but I think we should consider leaving the battlefield we created in Iraq and focusing our efforts on winning the war that we should have been fighting in the first place.

excellent post, mm... extends paw...
 
Me thinks...

'Tony the Tiger' along with Darla and Lady T should enlist and show all Y'all how "Code Pink' fights a War on terror...lmao..then again dropping the panties is only a distraction...:rolleyes:
 
Oh pa-lease...

Could anyone be more obvious?

This is starting to gross me out.


Once again...like you went on sabbatical and became a Nun...In your dreams...ya play the game..then cry foul when called on it! What was that movie that defined your ilk...oh yeah...'Who am I' Jackie Chan....albeit he is a funny guy but ya aren't a funny girl...Bitta' Momma are you!
 
I have not said anyone cannot express their opinions, just that I consider some of their opinions to be crap.

well said!

IMO, chickenhawks can have opinions, I'm just not going to give them any credence. Not about the war anyway... but since they haven't actually walked their incessant war talk, it makes everything else they say that much more unbelievable.

Have I mentioned yet that I despise chickenhawks? I rank them down there with pedophiles, bigots and liars... in other words, the scum of the earth.
 
well said!

IMO, chickenhawks can have opinions, I'm just not going to give them any credence. Not about the war anyway... but since they haven't actually walked their incessant war talk, it makes everything else they say that much more unbelievable.

Have I mentioned yet that I despise chickenhawks? I rank them down there with pedophiles, bigots and liars... in other words, the scum of the earth.
So, would it be okay for me who was in during the first conflict? What are your criteria? Have you walked the talk yourself?
 
'Tony the Tiger'...miss your corn flake breakfast this morning before finals?
For your info most who serve are of the conservative ilk...I am one of those...did my duty...and what have you done lately besides whine?

that's a real tiger not the cereal box variety, doc...

IF what you say is true then why are more democrats in congress veterans than their republican counterparts? Is it because the republicans, like rsr here, just give lip service to serving?

I enlisted and volunteered for the war of my youth... and spent one year of my four in Viet Nam. Now it's time for younger folks to serve. How about you? When and where did you serve? Did YOU go to war?
 
Hummm...

well said!

IMO, chickenhawks can have opinions, I'm just not going to give them any credence. Not about the war anyway... but since they haven't actually walked their incessant war talk, it makes everything else they say that much more unbelievable.

Have I mentioned yet that I despise chickenhawks? I rank them down there with pedophiles, bigots and liars... in other words, the scum of the earth.


Is 'Stripey' saying he is serving in a combat position..or just playin' around or fishin'..please give us your background stripey...clear the air waves sorta/kinda..I am a honest and up-front guy and don't hold back..please do the same...it will enhance your credibility!
 
Please read my post #76 and answer thequestion...quit dodging the inevitable!;)

I'm reading the thread from the beginning... keep your damn shirt on... and doc, I answered your idiotic question... insert bird flipping smilie here...

do you always start reading threads at the end? must be boring for you when reading books, knowing how it all ends before finding out the plot or cast of characters.

:pke:
 
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