Slaving for 28.8 hours ?

IHateGovernment said:
Perhaps with investing but I don't think our country rewards savings as much. Americans save a smaller percentage of their income than the rest of the west. Perhaps we just have a higher emphasis on consumption.

Harder to save money when you spend 150 dollars on sunglasses.
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well im learning.. the second pair were free.
 
IHateGovernment said:
They tend to calculate their unemployment rates differently than we do: they count everyone out of work whereas our government only counts those whom they believe to be looking for work. That makes a big difference.

Gearing one's economy for quality of life rather than maximizing production is actually a more rational approach. It tends to spread the benefits of the economy more evenly across the social strata.

Do they have a higher quality of life? In some respects they do but in others I would say not. Someone who is used to living in this country with the rediculous wealth and opportunity for gluttony would have a hard time living in Europe.

I just find it funny when people who are truly living the American lifestyle complain and wish to emulate Europe. There are tradeoffs just as there are with everything.
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Of course there are tradeoffs. I'd never claim that there weren't.

Many of the nations with a higher standard of living that ours are among these very western European democracies. Most of them have standards of living only slightly lower than ours. Yet they do it with a much shorter work week, far more time off per year and vastly better social services. On balance, I think they may have struck a better deal than we.
 
5days is a good amount with more the longer you work for a company.

However one should not take vacation at a critical time.

The most time I have taken consecutively off is 5 days and that was to be with my wife and daughter after her birth.

Outside of that I try to limit my vactions to two work days.
 
I think we get to wrapped up on an outdated savings figure and we should focus on net worth. Not many put money in a savings account when they can get 12% in the market.
Figures released today show the avg 401 with $100,000 up from $50,000 5 yrs ago. Not bad, doubt any European country is anywhere near that.
 
Of course there are tradeoffs. I'd never claim that there weren't.

Many of the nations with a higher standard of living that ours are among these very western European democracies. Most of them have standards of living only slightly lower than ours. Yet they do it with a much shorter work week, far more time off per year and vastly better social services. On balance, I think they may have struck a better deal than we.

Because I have not been to Europe I can only speak on what I have read and heard from others who have visited. One thing that is universally accepted is that if you are materialistic and value owning things as a high priority Europe is not for you.

If on the other hand you just want to be able to avoid poverty and crippling medical payments than Europe may be a good bet. Europe is more averaged. You can't be as rich but you won't be so poor.
 
I think we get to wrapped up on an outdated savings figure and we should focus on net worth. Not many put money in a savings account when they can get 12% in the market.
Figures released today show the avg 401 with $100,000 up from $50,000 5 yrs ago. Not bad, doubt any European country is anywhere near that.

Good point. Didn't consider that factor.
 
IHateGovernment said:
5days is a good amount with more the longer you work for a company.

However one should not take vacation at a critical time.

The most time I have taken consecutively off is 5 days and that was to be with my wife and daughter after her birth.

Outside of that I try to limit my vactions to two work days.
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Why? That precludes any long trips to, oh, say, Europe for example. Or just camping in Yellowstone for a couple of weeks: something everyone should do at least once in their lives.

If one requests one's vacation time in advance then I can't see what the problem is.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Of course there are tradeoffs. I'd never claim that there weren't.

Many of the nations with a higher standard of living that ours are among these very western European democracies. Most of them have standards of living only slightly lower than ours. Yet they do it with a much shorter work week, far more time off per year and vastly better social services. On balance, I think they may have struck a better deal than we.

Because I have not been to Europe I can only speak on what I have read and heard from others who have visited. One thing that is universally accepted is that if you are materialistic and value owning things as a high priority Europe is not for you.

If on the other hand you just want to be able to avoid poverty and crippling medical payments than Europe may be a good bet. Europe is more averaged. You can't be as rich but you won't be so poor.
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so here either your rich or your poor... and im a po' dem so id probably be middle class over there as opposed to lower middle class here... and my audi and jetta would be cheaper as would repair work..YAY EUROPE!
 
IHateGovernment said:
Move to Europe then Rob. Thing is the quality of life there in many respects in not as high.

I work 45 hours a week and I'm glad that the US is the economic powerhouse it is. Hard working Americans made it that way.
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The dutch seem to have it about right:

They are just as eutrepenurial as us: For a small country, the dutch are home to some huge and successful multinational corporations. And the dutch have a history of innovation, commerce, and engineering that is quite astonishing.

But, they have a greater degree of social justice than us.

That's not to knock the U.S. We have some advantages too.
 
I agree with you on easier middle too, but heck it's not very hard to get rich or upper middle class here.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Why? That precludes any long trips to, oh, say, Europe for example. Or just camping in Yellowstone for a couple of weeks: something everyone should do at least once in their lives.

If one requests one's vacation time in advance then I can't see what the problem is.
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The problem is that IHG doesn't believe in VAcation time. :cig:
 
Why? That precludes any long trips to, oh, say, Europe for example. Or just camping in Yellowstone for a couple of weeks: something everyone should do at least once in their lives.

If one requests one's vacation time in advance then I can't see what the problem is.

the nature of my job requires that I not be absent for long. Most of my responsibilities of mine can only be done by me (a situation I have created on purpose). I have chosen securily over leisure. I have learned to find leisure in the small things in life.
 

so here either your rich or your poor... and im a po' dem so id probably be middle class over there as opposed to lower middle class here... and my audi and jetta would be cheaper as would repair work..YAY EUROPE!

Rob you are not poor. A poor person doesn't wear 150 dollar sunglasses. You have more disposable income than I do. I am middle class. You are too.
 
The dutch seem to have it about right:

They are just as eutrepenurial as us: For a small country, the dutch are home to some huge and successful multinational corporations. And the dutch have a history of innovation, commerce, and engineering that is quite astonishing.

But, they have a greater degree of social justice than us.

That's not to knock the U.S. We have some advantages too.

It is true the Dutch are probably the best performers on the continent. They have a rich history of such a thing with their mercantile traditions.
 
ever the pessimist socialist ehh ornot.
Your median is way higher and so is our top.
Our majority's problem is mainly with education as only about 25% get college degrees, I'm sure you'll agree that if that number were double than the majority's life would be that much easier.
And I'll spot you that the European laboror / manufacturing worker is prob a lot better off. I'm just glad that "THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY" aspire to be much more than that.
 
Here is a quote I very much believe in:

The happy life is thought to be one of excellence; now an excellent life requires exertion, and does not consist in amusement. If Eudaimonia, or happiness, is activity in accordance with excellence, it is reasonable that it should be in accordance with the highest excellence; and this will be that of the best thing in us.

Aristotle
 
IHateGovernment said:

so here either your rich or your poor... and im a po' dem so id probably be middle class over there as opposed to lower middle class here... and my audi and jetta would be cheaper as would repair work..YAY EUROPE!

Rob you are not poor. A poor person doesn't wear 150 dollar sunglasses. You have more disposable income than I do. I am middle class. You are too.
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:britf:

no actually your lower middle class, b/c thats what i am. chap told me... so in Europe id move up to middle class right away... that would mean better lifestyle...
 
IHateGovernment said:
Here is a quote I very much believe in:

The happy life is thought to be one of excellence; now an excellent life requires exertion, and does not consist in amusement. If Eudaimonia, or happiness, is activity in accordance with excellence, it is reasonable that it should be in accordance with the highest excellence; and this will be that of the best thing in us.

Aristotle
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mine is

"if you wanna play, you gotta pay"

thats what i tell myself when i come into work hungover sometimes or being out partying all night.
 
actually Rob the proper way to look at class is best reflected in net worth by age group and you kick your peers ass. You are either upper-middle or upper. LOL
 
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