Socialized medicine a global failure

Robo said:
According to WHO Frank? The WHO? Keep listening to the socialist propaganda Frank! Don’t bother with other truthful facts!
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Oh, you mean listen to Donald Trump and the people who support him?

For the truthful facts!

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The “failed” system Frank is the “INSURANCE” system. The healthcare system is among the best on earth! The reason the INSURANCE system sucks Frank is because of the crooks you vote for to control it from the federal government Frank! They take bribes from BIG PHARMA and BIG Insurance Frank.
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The entirety of the healthcare system is fucked up, Robo.

You just do not get it.

You want to blame the federal government...because that is what the hacks of the American right do...blame the government.

The average general practitioner in the US earns $161,000...WAY above the average for all other countries...which is $78,000.



So the healthcare system that’s kept you alive for 82 years is a total failure, right Frank?
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I owe a great deal to the VA...which got me through my worst health crisis so far...cancer.



They’re brainwashed by the WHO and their own governments Frank. They all depend on America to cover their asses for their national defense. They wait in lines much longer than you do Frank. They get less care than you do Frank. They pay much higher taxes than you do Frank. The rich folks in those countries jump the list Frank. They wouldn’t trade their healthcare for ours because they’ve been lied to about our healthcare and their own healthcare Frank!
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YOU are the brainwashed guy here, Robo.

Hey...if it makes your miserable life feel less miserable...go for it.





Obamacare was a disaster originally created by the REPUBLICANS at the Heritage Foundation, then rejected by the Heritage as not workable nationally. Then it was picked up and tested by the Republican Governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts where it’s success is arguable. Then it was picked up by Obama and the Democrats in the Congress. It’s unconstitutional as a national program developed by, and operated by the feds, no matter what that Republican asshole on the Court, Roberts says.

I never paid a co-pay until Qbamacare went into effect Frank![/QUOTE]
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Robo,

The reason our health care is so expensive is because we get so sick. If we had far more diligent regulation of the capitalism which makes us so sick we would be healthier as a nation and would lower our health care costs.
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So you would have the crooked bastards in Washington regulate what we’re allowed to eat and what we’re not allowed to eat, how we’re allowed to live and how we’re not allowed to live, right? And y’all call yourselves “LIBERALS?????” You friend are a socialist authoritarian! A Social engineer! I sir prefer FREEDOM even if it cost me more!!!

Also, do not forget that it was the right which allowed drugs to get so expensive, a MAJOR cost factor in our high health care costs. Over half of America is on some kind of prescription, with no regulation at all of drug prices.
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If that were true, then drug prices would have gone down not up during the Democrats total control of Congress and when they got Obama elected and had the majorities in every faze of the legislative and executive government. I believe with all my heart that BOTH DUOPOLY PARTIES are guilty of accepting the BIG PHARMA and BIG insurance lobbyist bribery loot, don’t you?



But wait a minute. I though Fox news had the highest ratings. Are they unable to counter the messages of the left with such a popular platform?
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Most thankful for y’all lefties, Fox is a single voice among the crowd on the left. Not just cable news, but all network TV news. Our schools and colleges are overflowing with socialist teachers and professors. Wven professional sports has been infiltrated by the voices of the socialist left.



And again. Take a wild guess why the right is unable to convince Canadians to want the US health care system. Canadians would have to be convinced that it is in their better interest to allow drug prices to be accepted without negotiation, and for those of limited means to be tossed to the curb.
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And WHO do you think keeps drug prices high in America? I’ll give you a hint. It’s those folks that vote for the Democrats and Republicans that go to our Congress and accept the lobbyist bribery from BIG PHARMA and adjust the written laws accordingly. And you want those bastards to run our total healthcare system, righgt????? Brilliant!!! Just Brilliant!!!!

It is selfish for those of adequate means to protest having to pay more so that those of limited means can have access to proper health care.
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WHY? And how much more? And WHO should they be paying it to???

The one thing we never hear from anyone on the right is that America is the only highly industrialized nation which does not have universal health care. They choose to ignore this troubling fact. Why? Does our fantastic wealth depend upon letting the poor die needlessly? If so, then our wealth exceeds our compassion.
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#1 You likely you don’t hear it from the right because it’s NOT TRUE, http://www.expatarrivals.com/europe/turkey/healthcare-turkey

https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/india/

#2 Will you report on the “poor” that are dying “needlessly” in America with some facts please?

#3 We likely don’t hear such propaganda from the right, because the right is opposed to Single Payer Healthcare run by a corrupt and criminal federal government and because they know, unlike the left, Single Payer Healthcare cannot work in an America with a population of 300-400 million people and a government already with a 22 trillion $ national debt and a Military Industrial Complex that consumes very nearly half of our annual income and both of our duopoly parties believe America is the world’s keeper and protector.

#4, Everybody that’s not brainwashed by the WHO and the socialist democrats do their research and we know that SINGLE PAYER SUCKS!!!!!
 
Robo said:
The american people have never experienced long waiting list for treatments or the high taxes of single payer healthcare the vast majority don't have a clue what the cost of single payer would be to America's 300-400 million people or what it would do to our national debt. So, why wouldn't they poll positive to single payer when it's being advertised by the left as the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Canadians for the most part have never experienced America's healthcare system. All most of them know about it is the lies and propaganda that the socialist dominated WHO feed the world. The most, and probably the only thing, successful that the socialist left produce is their propaganda machine.
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Have you ever been to the doctor or a hospital in a country that has universal healthcare?

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Robo,



The reason our health care is so expensive is because we get so sick. If we had far more diligent regulation of the capitalism which makes us so sick we would be healthier as a nation and would lower our health care costs. Also, do not forget that it was the right which allowed drugs to get so expensive, a MAJOR cost factor in our high health care costs. Over half of America is on some kind of prescription, with no regulation at all of drug prices.



But wait a minute. I though Fox news had the highest ratings. Are they unable to counter the messages of the left with such a popular platform?



And again. Take a wild guess why the right is unable to convince Canadians to want the US health care system. Canadians would have to be convinced that it is in their better interest to allow drug prices to be accepted without negotiation, and for those of limited means to be tossed to the curb.

It is selfish for those of adequate means to protest having to pay more so that those of limited means can have access to proper health care.

The one thing we never hear from anyone on the right is that America is the only highly industrialized nation which does not have universal health care. They choose to ignore this troubling fact. Why? Does our fantastic wealth depend upon letting the poor die needlessly? If so, then our wealth exceeds our compassion.
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Having a healthy workforce, healthy babies and mother's, healthy seniors is very good for the country and results are measurable.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
 
Robo said:
I think the socialist healthcare systems in those countries create long waiting times for care, high taxes, rationed healthcare, the rationing controlled by government bureaucrats. I think the richer folks in those countries jump the list for care with bribery payments. I think the care is likely at a lower level than what's available in America except for the ruling class and wealthy. I think the only reason those countries can afford single payer care is because they are nations with populations hardly more than our mid sized states. They also afford single payer because they contribute only a fraction of their GDP to their own national defense and they leave their national defense up to NATO and America's protection of them. I also think the people in those countries are brainwashed by the WHO and propagandized by their own governments and they have no actual clue how good America's healthcare really is. They're lied to! I also think most if not all of those countries are experiencing more and more difficulties with their systems because they're not able to keep up with the need for doctors, and the cost.
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That's what the propagandists say.. American healthcare is good but by no means the best .. Other countries have excellent out comes, better infant mortality.. They also have excellent med schools that cost a third of what ours cost.

Single payer/Private delivery isn't socialized medicine... Only the VA Hospital System is socialized medicine.

Foreign doctors from Syria, the Caribbean schools, Lebanon, Romania and others do EXTREMELY well when they take the USEFMG exam.
 
kudzu said:
Having a healthy workforce, healthy babies and mother's, healthy seniors is very good for the country and results are measurable.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
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As long as they are paying for their own or getting one of you bleeding hearts to do it for them, they can be as healthy as they want. If they aren't paying their own way, I don't give a shit whether they are or not.
 
kudzu said:
That's what the propagandists say.. American healthcare is good but by no means the best .. Other countries have excellent out comes, better infant mortality.. They also have excellent med schools that cost a third of what ours cost.

Single payer/Private delivery isn't socialized medicine... Only the VA Hospital System is socialized medicine.

Foreign doctors from Syria, the Caribbean schools, Lebanon, Romania and others do EXTREMELY well when they take the USEFMG exam.
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When the government controls what goes on, when it goes on, and makes the payment, it's socialism.
 
kudzu said:
Private delivery is NOT socialism, you moron.

What do insurance companies contribute to patient care?
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Government control over all aspect of delivery is, you stupid fucking cunt.

What does the government doing the same type of thing contribute to healthcare?
 
Well, so far the subject title of this thread has been proven wrong. The rest is just bantering among the hopeful and the stubborn.
 
This thread was a global failure. Universal medicine gets better results for less than half the money and covers every citizen. It is so civilized when compared to people's health being treated as a means for profit. The sick person is just a money vehicle. The more procedures the doctor does, the more money he makes.Our system is so twisted.
 
Nordberg said:
This thread was a global failure. Universal medicine gets better results for less than half the money and covers every citizen. It is so civilized when compared to people's health being treated as a means for profit. The sick person is just a money vehicle. The more procedures the doctor does, the more money he makes.Our system is so twisted.
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Bingo! You hit the nail on its head.
 
Massive waiting lists and dangerous delays for medical appointments

In those countries with the longest experience of single-payer government insurance, published data demonstrates massive waiting lists and unconscionable delays that are unheard of in the United States. In England alone, approximately 3.9 million patients are on NHS waiting lists; over 362,000 patients waited longer than 18 weeks for hospital treatment in March 2017, an increase of almost 64,000 on the previous year; and 95,252 have been waiting more than six months for treatment -- all after already waiting for and receiving initial diagnosis and referral.

In Canada's single-payer system, the 2016 median wait for a referral from a general practitioner appointment to the specialist appointment was 9.4 weeks; when added to the median wait of 10.6 weeks from specialist to first treatment, the median wait after seeing a doctor to start treatment was 20 weeks, or about 4.5 months.

Ironically, US media outrage was widespread when pre-ACA 2009 data showed that time-to-appointment for Americans averaged 20.5 days for five common specialties. That selective reporting failed to note that those waits were for healthy check-ups in almost all cases, by definition the lowest medical priority. Even for simple physical exams and purely elective, routine appointments, US wait times before ACA were shorter than for seriously ill patients in countries with nationalized, single-payer insurance.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
Life-threatening delays for treatment, even for patients requiring urgent cancer treatment or critical brain surgery

Those same insured patients in single-payer systems are dying while waiting for the most critical care, including those referred by doctors for "urgent treatment" for already diagnosed cancer (almost 19% wait more than two months) and brain surgery (17% wait more than four months). In Canada's single-payer system, the median wait for neurosurgery after already seeing the doctor was a shocking 46.9 weeks -- about 10 months. And in Canada, if you needed life-changing orthopedic surgery, like hip or knee replacement, you would wait a startling 38 weeks -- about the same time it takes from fertilization to a full-term human life.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
Delayed availability of life-saving drugs

Americans enjoy the world's quickest access to the newest prescription drugs, in stark contrast to patients in single-payer systems. In Joshua Cohen's 2006 study of patient access to 71 drugs, between 1999 and 2005 the UK government's guidelines board, NICE, had been slower than the United States to authorize 64 of these. Before the ACA, the United States was by far the most frequent country where new cancer drugs were first launched -- by a factor of at least four -- compared to any country studied in the previous decade, including Germany, Japan, Switzerland, France, Canada, Italy and the UK, according to the Annals of Oncology in 2007.

In a 2011 Health Affairs study, of 35 new cancer drugs submitted from 2000-2011, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had approved 32 while the European Medicines Agency (EMA) approved only 26. Median time to approval in the United States was about half of that in Europe. All 23 drugs approved by both were available to US patients first. Even in the most recent data, two-thirds of the novel drugs approved in 2015 (29 of 45, 64%) were approved in the United States before any other country. And yet, only months ago, NHS in England introduced a new "Budget Impact Test" to cap drug prices, a measure that is specifically designed to further restrict drug access even though the delays will break their own NHS Constitution pledges to its citizens.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
Worse availability of screening tests

Despite what some might suppose about a likely strength of a government-centralized system, the facts show that single-payer systems cannot even outperform our system in something as scheduled and routine as cancer screening tests. Confirming numerous prior OECD studies, a Health Affairs study reported in 2009, before any Affordable Care Act screening requirements, that the United States had superior screening rates to all 10 European countries with nationalized systems for all cancers. Likewise, the single payer system of Canada fails to deliver screening tests for the most common cancers as broadly as the US system, including PAP smears and colonoscopies. And Americans are more likely to be screened younger for cancer than in Europe, when the expected benefit is greatest. Not surprisingly, US patients have had less advanced disease at diagnosis than in Europe for almost all cancers.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
Significantly worse outcomes from serious diseases

It might be said that the bottom line about a health care system is the data on outcomes from treatable illnesses. To no one's surprise, the consequences of delayed access to medications, diagnosis and treatment are significantly worse outcomes from virtually all serious diseases, including cancer, heart disease, stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes compared to Americans.

And while some studies have noted that Canadians and Germans, for example, have longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality rates than Americans do, they are misleading. Those statistics are extremely coarse and depend on a wide array of complex inputs having little to do with health care, including differences in lifestyle (smoking, obesity, hygiene, safe sex), population heterogeneity, environmental conditions, incidence of suicide and homicide and even differences in what counts as a live birth.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
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