Socialized medicine a global failure

The truth is that the UK, Canada and other European countries for decades have used wait lists for surgery, diagnostic procedures and doctor appointments specifically as a means of rationing care. And long waits for needed care are not simply inconvenient. Research (for example, here) has consistently shown that waiting for medical care has serious consequences, including pain and suffering, worse medical outcomes and significant costs to individuals in foregone wages and to the overall economy. In contrast to countries with single-payer health systems, it is broadly acknowledged that "waiting lists are not a feature in the United States" for medical care, as stated by Dr. Sharon Wilcox in her study comparing strategies to measure and reduce this important failure of centralized health systems.

What has been the response to the public outcry about unacceptable waits for care in single-payer systems? First, a growing list of European governments have issued dozens of "guarantees" with intentionally lax targets, and even those targets continue to be missed. Second, many single-payer systems now funnel taxpayer money to private care to solve their systems' inadequacies, just as we now do in our own Veteran Affairs system, and even use taxpayer money for care in other countries.

Instead of judging health system reforms by the number of people classified as "insured," reforms should focus on making excellent medical care more broadly available and affordable without restricting its use or creating obstacles to future innovation. Reducing the cost of medical care requires creating conditions long proven to bring down prices while improving quality: increasing the supply of medical care, stimulating competition among providers and incentivizing empowered consumers to consider price.

Single-payer systems in countries with decades of experience have been proven in numerous peer-reviewed scientific journals to be inferior to the US system in terms of both access and quality. Americans enjoy superior access to health care -- whether defined by access to screening; wait-times for diagnosis, treatment, or specialists; timeliness of surgery; or availability of technology and drugs. As those countries turn to privatization to solve their systems' failures, progressives here illogically pursue that failed model.

And make no mistake about it -- America's most vulnerable, the poor, as well as the middle class, will undoubtedly suffer the most if the system turns to single-payer health care, because they will be unable to circumvent that system.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html
 
That's what the propagandists say.. American healthcare is good but by no means the best .. Other countries have excellent out comes, better infant mortality..



Talk about stretching a point until it snaps. This ranking is based on some very flawed data and assumptions.
1. The U.S. ranks high on this list largely because this country numbers among those that actually measure neonatal deaths, notably in premature infant fatalities, unlike other countries that basically leave premature babies to die, notes health analyst Betsey McCaughey.

Other statistical quirks push the U.S. unjustifiably higher in this ranking compared to other countries.
1.
First, let’s start with the definition. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines a country’s infant mortality rate as the number of infants who die between birth and age one, per 1,000 live births.
1. WHO says a live birth is when a baby shows any signs of life, even if, say, a low birth weight baby takes one, single breath, or has one heartbeat. While the U.S. uses this definition, other countries don’t and so don’t count premature or severely ill babies as live births-or deaths.
The United States counts all births if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size or duration of life, notes Bernardine Healy, a former director of the National Institutes of Health and former president and chief executive of the American Red Cross (Healy noted this information in a column for U.S. News & World Report).
And that includes stillbirths, which many other countries don’t report.

And what counts as a birth varies from country to country. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) before these countries count these infants as live births, Healy notes.
1. In other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long, Healy notes. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless, and are not counted, Healy says.
And some countries don’t reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth, Healy notes.

Norway, which has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, shows no better infant survival than the United States when you factor in Norway’s underweight infants that are not now counted, Healy says, quoting Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
1. Moreover, the ranking doesn’t take into account that the US has a diverse, heterogeneous population, Healy adds, unlike, say, in Iceland, which tracks all infant deaths regardless of factor, but has a population under 300,000 that is 94% homogenous.
Likewise, Finland and Japan do not have the ethnic and cultural diversity of the U.S.’s 300 cm-plus citizens. http://www.drwalt.com/blog/2009/07/...fant-mortality-rates-in-the-developed-world”/
 
Well, so far the subject title of this thread has been proven wrong. The rest is just bantering among the hopeful and the stubborn.

According to who, you? this thread has been stocked full of credible evidence by myself and others that show that the OP is spot on!
 
This thread was a global failure. Universal medicine gets better results for less than half the money and covers every citizen. It is so civilized when compared to people's health being treated as a means for profit. The sick person is just a money vehicle. The more procedures the doctor does, the more money he makes.Our system is so twisted.

So says the person that can’t account for how many of the countries he posted for evidence that people leave home to get healthcare in other nations, are Single Payer socialized medicine nations receiving the foreigners for care. He doesn’t even mention how many of those travelers who seek healthcare in other countries are actually Americans. And it’s logical to believe he (Nordi), didn’t even bother to check how many of those traveling healthcare seekers are actually folks from Single Payer socialized medicine nations actually seeking healthcare abroad because they didn’t want to die on SINGLE PAYER WAITING LIST in their home country. Go figure!!!!!
 
No but I have family members who have. Have you?

Lots. I have Canadians in our family and attend gatherings with them. In all the time I have spent with them, I never fail to ask if they would like our medical system over theirs. Not once did someone say yes. They usually laugh like I am asking a crazy question. Yeah their system is not perfect, but ours is a mess. Buit they do not have to worry about bankruptcy if they get seriously ill or are an accident. They go to the doctor get treated and go home. They do not have to show an insurance coverage or have to argue with the insurance company to get ther paid for coverage. They do not have to worry about going to the doctor at all.
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So says the person that can’t account for how many of the countries he posted for evidence that people leave home to get healthcare in other nations, are Single Payer socialized medicine nations receiving the foreigners for care. He doesn’t even mention how many of those travelers who seek healthcare in other countries are actually Americans. And it’s logical to believe he (Nordi), didn’t even bother to check how many of those traveling healthcare seekers are actually folks from Single Payer socialized medicine nations actually seeking healthcare abroad because they didn’t want to die on SINGLE PAYER WAITING LIST in their home country. Go figure!!!!!

I knew you could not be honest. The reason the medical tourists do not go to universal care countries, is because they do not have for profit medical care. Is that hard for you to understand. They don't even have a pay window. They are not asked for money. Healthcare is covered for all citizens. They are not in the business of making money off sick people. Yes kiddo, there are always over a million Americans a year going abroad for care. They do not go to get worse.
Americans go abroad to get equal or better care at a fraction of the price.
 
The fact that your rich are very rich and do no work whatever.

Jealous? Sounds like it.

It also sounds like you don't think work involves anything but doing something with your hands. Maybe that's why when you play with yourself you consider it "working".
 
So says the person that can’t account for how many of the countries he posted for evidence that people leave home to get healthcare in other nations, are Single Payer socialized medicine nations receiving the foreigners for care. He doesn’t even mention how many of those travelers who seek healthcare in other countries are actually Americans. And it’s logical to believe he (Nordi), didn’t even bother to check how many of those traveling healthcare seekers are actually folks from Single Payer socialized medicine nations actually seeking healthcare abroad because they didn’t want to die on SINGLE PAYER WAITING LIST in their home country. Go figure!!!!!

We have over 40,000 Internal Medicine doctors in the US who were trained in India. Do you understand why those practitioners are not Americans trained in the US?
 
25% Of Physicians Are Born Outside The U.S. Can ...


Jul 12, 2016 · Pharma & Healthcare. Currently, more than one-quarter of physicians and surgeons in the United States are foreign-born. For high-skilled workers such as doctors, visa limitations, additional educational requirements, tuitions, licensure, relocation, lower pay and xenophobia can all play a part in the difficulties associated with practicing.

continued

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicole...n-reform-solve-our-doc-shortage/#49326b9d155f
 
Physician Shortages Are Here To Stay

With the supply of U.S.-born medical professionals falling so far short of demand, real discussion of immigration policy has to begin taking place as it specifically pertains to healthcare. Current estimates suggest that the United States will face a shortage of 46,100 to 90,400 physicians by 2025. The current shortage is no surprise, however, as it was predicted as far back as 1990, when

continued

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicole...n-reform-solve-our-doc-shortage/#49326b9d155f
 
The truth is that the UK, Canada and other European countries for decades have used wait lists for surgery, diagnostic procedures and doctor appointments specifically as a means of rationing care. And long waits for needed care are not simply inconvenient. Research (for example, here) has consistently shown that waiting for medical care has serious consequences, including pain and suffering, worse medical outcomes and significant costs to individuals in foregone wages and to the overall economy. In contrast to countries with single-payer health systems, it is broadly acknowledged that "waiting lists are not a feature in the United States" for medical care, as stated by Dr. Sharon Wilcox in her study comparing strategies to measure and reduce this important failure of centralized health systems.

What has been the response to the public outcry about unacceptable waits for care in single-payer systems? First, a growing list of European governments have issued dozens of "guarantees" with intentionally lax targets, and even those targets continue to be missed. Second, many single-payer systems now funnel taxpayer money to private care to solve their systems' inadequacies, just as we now do in our own Veteran Affairs system, and even use taxpayer money for care in other countries.

Instead of judging health system reforms by the number of people classified as "insured," reforms should focus on making excellent medical care more broadly available and affordable without restricting its use or creating obstacles to future innovation. Reducing the cost of medical care requires creating conditions long proven to bring down prices while improving quality: increasing the supply of medical care, stimulating competition among providers and incentivizing empowered consumers to consider price.

Single-payer systems in countries with decades of experience have been proven in numerous peer-reviewed scientific journals to be inferior to the US system in terms of both access and quality. Americans enjoy superior access to health care -- whether defined by access to screening; wait-times for diagnosis, treatment, or specialists; timeliness of surgery; or availability of technology and drugs. As those countries turn to privatization to solve their systems' failures, progressives here illogically pursue that failed model.

And make no mistake about it -- America's most vulnerable, the poor, as well as the middle class, will undoubtedly suffer the most if the system turns to single-payer health care, because they will be unable to circumvent that system.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/opinions/single-payer-failure-opinion-atlas/index.html

A man in North Wales was on a waiting list for a hip operation but decided to go to Lithuania to have it done. The NHS paid him the £6000 that the operation cost. This is a relatively newish policy and is helping to clear waiting lists.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/hip-operation-abroad-billed-nhs-15869577
 
We have over 40,000 Internal Medicine doctors in the US who were trained in India. Do you understand why those practitioners are not Americans trained in the US?

Yes! because America is sorely lacking in medical schools for one, and the schools we have are some of the world's best, but very expensive, and we keep up with our doctor needs with foreign doctors coming to America for the "FOR PROFIT" compensation they won't get in their home countries.

When America adopts Single Payer and the government takes control over physicians compensation, fewer doctors will come to America and the doctor shortage will cause a tremendous backup of patients and waiting list will be outrageous. Many doctors will also likely return to their home country or move to Mexico's more free market place.
 
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A man in North Wales was on a waiting list for a hip operation but decided to go to Lithuania to have it done. The NHS paid him the £6000 that the operation cost. This is a relatively newish policy and is helping to clear waiting lists.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/hip-operation-abroad-billed-nhs-15869577

It's a known fact, but non-reported fact by the WHO and leftist media that the UK ships many, many of their critical operations to India because of their Single Payer overloaded waiting list.
 
Yes! because America is sorely lacking in medical schools for one, and the schools we have are some of the world's best, but very expensive, and we keep up with our doctor needs with foreign doctors coming to America for the "FOR PROFIT" compensation they won't get in their home countries.

When America adopts Single Payer and the government takes control over physicians compensation, fewer doctors will come to America and the doctor shortage will cause a tremendous backup of patients and waiting list will be outrageous. Many doctors will also likely return to their home country or move to Mexico's more free market place.


American kids are priced out of Medical School education.


And, an Internal Medicine doctor can't make a good living unless he/she does procedures.
 
Your only truth in that post Frank is the cost of America's healthcare. The only thing you "KNOW" about healthcare Frank comes from leftist propaganda. They're using the old Hitler scam on you frank! "Tell em a lie enough times and they'll believe it and repeat it themselves" (Adolf Hitler 1935.)

Read the thread and the site Frank! Learn some truth! The WHO is a leftwing propaganda operation Frank!!!!!

Ah yes the WHO is a left wing propaganda operation. Isn't everyone? And everything? Everywhere? (except Fox that is)
 
Yes! because America is sorely lacking in medical schools for one, and the schools we have are some of the world's best, but very expensive, and we keep up with our doctor needs with foreign doctors coming to America for the "FOR PROFIT" compensation they won't get in their home countries.

When America adopts Single Payer and the government takes control over physicians compensation, fewer doctors will come to America and the doctor shortage will cause a tremendous backup of patients and the waiting list will be outrageous. Many doctors will also likely return to their home country or move to Mexico's more free market place.

Almost. The fact is doctors limit the number of people who can go into medicine. That is how they create an artificial shortage and allows them to gouge us at will. They are protecting themselves at the people's expense. Our systm has little to reccommend to the world. But a doctor abroad who is greedy might come here to get rich. That is not bringing the cream of the crop here.
 
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