Some questions for our leftist friends at JPP.

[Robo]

It is hard for me to understand how somebody can support the Constitution which establishes voting and then not vote. That seems illogical to me.

I could be proud to vote in a truly open election devoid of political parties corrupt money and stacked full of candidates all with a true desire to honor, defend, protect and govern by the dictates of our Constitution and I could chose among the best of the lot who are free from political special interest and corrupt parties. That dream world is so far away from reality I simply chose to not shovel shit against a stone wall. I accept the fact that we have the most corrupt government that money can buy And absolutely no way short of revolution to solve the situation. My only departing quest on planet earth is to remind whoever I can whenever I can what our only guarantee of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness, our Constitution truly says.

 

[Nordberg]

I could be proud to vote in a truly open election devoid of political parties corrupt money and stacked full of candidates all with a true desire to honor, defend, protect and govern by the dictates of our Constitution and I could chose among the best of the lot who are free from political special interest and corrupt parties. That dream world is so far away from reality I simply chose to not shovel shit against a stone wall. I accept the fact that we have the most corrupt government that money can buy And absolutely no way short of revolution to solve the situation. My only departing quest on planet earth is to remind whoever I can whenever I can what our only guarantee of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness, our Constitution truly says.

The Dems have pushed for elections with only public financing, no corporate or wealthy donations allowed. The Repubs fought it every time. If we had that, the power would go back to the people. That would be a huge step to fixing our country. Not yours, canada, but the US. Take the money out of politics.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

Here friend we disagree again. I don’t find “great latitude” in the wording of the Constitution, I find literal English interpretations unambiguous in the vast majority of the Constitution, especially the Bill Of Rights, Articles One, Two and Three. I think most pre-teen youths of average intelligence could correctly interpret it. I also believe the leftist idiocy that the Constitution is a living breathing document is absurd! I think claiming it takes a constitutional scholar to interpret the Constitution is also absurd! I think what really is needed for interpretation in constitutional issues is the written law compiled by lawyers professional in the art of linguistic gymnastics who’s talents are for skirting the truest of Constitutional interpretations with mumbo jumbo meant to ambiguously confuse the positive Constitutional opinion.

That last sentence is quite baffling. It appears to me to be self-contradictory.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

The Supreme Court is made up of 9 black robed humans, with their own biases, appointed by partisan ideological Presidents and confirmed by partisan ideological Senators. Their every decision doesn’t PROVE the sanctity of constitutional and unconstitutional decisions. As a matter of fact some of their majority decisions are absurd and plainly biased. Though their decisions ARE the last word until, and if, later amended, their decisions aren’t “necessarily” constitutionally valid, they’re often simply a legalization of unconstitutional laws that can most often be easily recognized by the average interested citizen.

I don't always agree with their decisions either, but it's their job and they do have the authority to decide.

 

[PoliTalker]

But of course we have an insolvable problem short of revolution for eliminating BIG money out of “your” most trusted government. That being the corrupt BIG money bought and paid for Duopoly two party dictatorship, because of the BIG corruption and BIG money in the election and reelection system incorporated in both parties your obscure vote is simply shoveling shit against a stone wall.

Voting matters. If you wish to abdicate your right that's your choice. I think the more people we have voting, the better the nation is.

Again, I’ll remind you the duopoly owns the national media, the national debate, the ballot access system and every dime of special interest loot. They, (the crooked bastards), have a collective lock on government. They hold the gavel that passes the legislation that determines how government works. It is absurdly naive to even waste a thought on any idea the those folks will legislate their perfect government racket away, don’t you think?

I agree it's a tall challenge to tackle the duopoly but great challenges have been met and conquered in the past. We didn't always have just two parties. Who knows what the future will bring?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

But I take no responsibility for it! Because I don’t participate in their duopoly dictatorship racket, stacked deck. At 83 I’m on my way out of this world and I’m quickly finding a blessing in that thought. I have no faith in any world government. I accept the fact that humans have no credibility, loyalty or ability to govern themselves honestly, and with any real justice and freedom for any truly extended period of time. I can only see a bankrupted future for a once great America, poverty, elitism and tyrannical dictatorial government and a near future revolution. I think our founders great experiment is quickly ending!

Some things take more than one lifetime to accomplish. One thing is for certain. A dream will never be realized if it is never pursued. I'm sorry you don't see it happening in your lifetime, but then again, great things have been accomplished in the past 83 years. Whether you voted and participated or not, you have been a part of that by being an American, working, contributing to our society, paying taxes, leaving progeny. The fact that you come in here and share ideas, keep the discussion going, prod others to challenge their views contributes to the country. You never know. You could prompt somebody to have a new idea, a fresh look at things, maybe brainstorm and solution to a small problem, or even a large one. There's always hope even if it doesn't jump right out in plain view.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

I could be proud to vote in a truly open election devoid of political parties corrupt money and stacked full of candidates all with a true desire to honor, defend, protect and govern by the dictates of our Constitution and I could chose among the best of the lot who are free from political special interest and corrupt parties. That dream world is so far away from reality I simply chose to not shovel shit against a stone wall. I accept the fact that we have the most corrupt government that money can buy And absolutely no way short of revolution to solve the situation. My only departing quest on planet earth is to remind whoever I can whenever I can what our only guarantee of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness, our Constitution truly says.

If you lived in Maine they recently adopted Ranked Choice Voting. That would be a good thing to have nationwide. Maybe we should have a new amendment to make that the law of the land. That would give alternate parties more of a chance to take hold.

 

[Robo]

Agreed corporations have no moral responsibility. For that to exist, they would have to have morals. Corporations have no morals because corporations are not people.

I would differ with that statement. Without people, there would be no corporations. Corporations are people and that’s irrelevant to the actual problem. The laws and the courts can’t see past the ends of their noses and likely on purpose! The problem is corporate donations to politicians are made not by the collective body of corporate folks, they’re made by a “person” at the top of the corporation, or more likely a board, i.e., a small in charge, representation of the body people. The decisions are made strictly to favor the corporation without regard for any number of people, i.e. they finance who they believe will win and who they know they can most easily bribe. The living conditions and lives of the people in the nation, their freedom and rights and what’s good for them has no bearing on who they finance.

That’s why I would reform the system by law, abolishing “corporate” & “other special interest donations to politicians and only allow “individual” donations capped equally throughout the nation. It would be illegal for any special interest head honcho to donate a single dime above the cap set for everybody. The law would include PACKS and unions and even the AARP and alike.

But even that has a very glaring problem. How do we the people get the recipients of the special interest bribery to legislate themselves out of their cushy racket? ANSWER: WE CAN’T!!!!!

By the way, another glaring problem I have with socialism in general and Single Payer healthcare insurance in particular, in America in particular, is the fact that Wall Street loot and other special interest loot runs this nation and to believe an actual Single Payer system can ever come out of the swamp without corporate fingerprints all over it and corporate and special interest profiting in some manner seems a pure fantasy in the American political system I’ve come to recognize. I think y’all lefties should think about that!!! I know you believe the Democrats are innocent and worthy of your trust, but if that’s your thought process, I’d suggest you do some research uncovering who’s donating to who. I think you’ll find that the BIG Wall Street Banks supported Mrs. Clinton and the Democrats.

 

[Robo]

You are entitled to your opinion. The problem with it is: Non-profit Universal Health Care already works so well in other countries. They spend less, live longer. Nobody goes medically bankrupt. I don't understand why those concepts might be distasteful. Those sound like good things to me. Why should people work hard without the reward of more profits? Ask most American workers. They don't get the profits if they work harder. They get to keep their job.

As I have presented ad-nausea on this forum, what you’re claiming is pure propaganda put out by the socialist dominated United Nations WHO. I’ve presented on this forum the debunking of those blatant lies that they deserve. The actual truth is the systems and biases the WHO use to compile their fake statistics and ratings differ per-country and depending on bias, and glaring facts are ignored. But if you insist on being bamboozled by the socialist propaganda, suit yourself!

I believe that America has among the best health CARE on earth and the most cutting edge creations of new medical procedures and machinery & develops the most new prescription drugs, because we’re “for profit.” I submit that America’s health problem is health INSURANCE. I also believe that “for profit” everything beats the shit out of any incentive-“less” Non-profit anything! And BTW, as long as somebody is getting a pay check, there’s no such thing as a Single Payer Non-profit! Even God offers a profit!

 

[PoliTalker]

As I have presented ad-nausea on this forum, what you’re claiming is pure propaganda put out by the socialist dominated United Nations WHO. I’ve presented on this forum the debunking of those blatant lies that they deserve. The actual truth is the systems and biases the WHO use to compile their fake statistics and ratings differ per-country and depending on bias, and glaring facts are ignored. But if you insist on being bamboozled by the socialist propaganda, suit yourself!

I believe that America has among the best health CARE on earth and the most cutting edge creations of new medical procedures and machinery & develops the most new prescription drugs, because we’re “for profit.” I submit that America’s health problem is health INSURANCE. I also believe that “for profit” everything beats the shit out of any incentive-“less” Non-profit anything! And BTW, as long as somebody is getting a pay check, there’s no such thing as a Single Payer Non-profit! Even God offers a profit!

Propaganda?

Do you dispute the average life spans of individuals in nations with universal health care?

If so, what do you believe are the actual statistics?

And I have to wonder how this one organization has been able to get away with what you are saying is a blatant lie?

Is it some evil conspiracy to alter the numbers from every nation?

Pretty amazing if they really pulled that off.

It is also unclear why anyone would do this, or if it is even possible.

How about the per capita spending on health care figures?

Is that also propaganda?

How about the tremendous wealth of American insurance and pharmaceutical executives?

Have those figures also been misrepresented?

How can it be justified for somebody to get paid $17.5 million a year as a prominent legal drug dealer while Americans die or go bankrupt trying to pay for life-saving drugs? Just the thought of that makes me want to vomit. It is so wrong it is beyond description.

Jonas Salk developed the vaccine for Polio. He didn't do it for money. He gave it away for free. Too bad he wasn't more motivated by capitalism or he might have amounted to something. Instead, he just threw his life away trying to help others.

He was motivated by a desire to help people. That was his reward. Capitalism didn't do that.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

I wonder if you ever heard of Alfred Loomis?

You think capitalism and the profit motive is the only reason anybody works hard?

This should send your head spinning, then.

How do you explain that one of the major reasons the Allies won WWII is because of this man, who did what he did not for profit, but because he wanted to make a major contribution to society.

Alfred Loomis isn't a widely recognized name. He didn't do what he did for notoriety. He didn't want fame or riches. He already had riches. And he liked his very private life. He was so smart that money was nothing to him. Nothing at all. Just another tool. He figured out how to get lots of it, then he spent it doing what he really wanted to do. He correctly predicted the crash of '29. Sold out early, became fabulously rich. Then he began spending his own money on science and technology. Not to get rich. He already did that. He did it because he foresaw WWII and he wanted to provide a vital weapon that in the end probably saved England.

You should probably not take the time to learn about this guy. It totally blows your profit-motive theory out of the water:

Wow. We Had RADAR-Guided Auto AA Guns In WWII. Inventor Didn't Do It For Profit. Just Wanted To Make Sure The Allies Had Advanced Technology

 

[iolo]

Some questions for our leftist friends at JPP.

Since when has Robo had friends?

 

[evince]

As I have presented ad-nausea on this forum, what you’re claiming is pure propaganda put out by the socialist dominated United Nations WHO. I’ve presented on this forum the debunking of those blatant lies that they deserve. The actual truth is the systems and biases the WHO use to compile their fake statistics and ratings differ per-country and depending on bias, and glaring facts are ignored. But if you insist on being bamboozled by the socialist propaganda, suit yourself!

I believe that America has among the best health CARE on earth and the most cutting edge creations of new medical procedures and machinery & develops the most new prescription drugs, because we’re “for profit.” I submit that America’s health problem is health INSURANCE. I also believe that “for profit” everything beats the shit out of any incentive-“less” Non-profit anything! And BTW, as long as somebody is getting a pay check, there’s no such thing as a Single Payer Non-profit! Even God offers a profit!

someone doesn't understand the definitions of words


dude

in a true socialist state people are given pay checks


so what you have just claimed is there is no such thing as socialism



you have soaked your brain in the toilet of fox for sooo long there is nothing left inside your head but watery poo

 

[Robo]

Most American workers are very diligent in their work and they have zero incentive for working hard other than if they don't work hard they lose their job.

American’s like every other person on earth work, for a paycheck! It’s actually a “for profit” ideology. In a capitalist system, the for profit ideology has two advantages working diligently hard most usually allows one to demand better pay, i.e. more profit! Offering and delivering better pay most often delivers more diligently hard working workers and everybody ‘profits”

America’s problem again is the federal government and its meddling in the public’s education system. The feds rarely come up with any good ideas to educate our population..All of the really bad schools in America are public schools near totally reliant on the fed for their existence. The feds simply believe the solution to most everything is just throwing taxpayer’s money at it. They’ve even screwed up our nation’s schools of higher learning by throwing more and more taxpayer’s money at even the private institutions while claiming they’re, (the feds), supporting higher learning. Problem is, the more grant loot they throw at our alleged schools of higher learning, the higher those schools raise their tuition, just to keep the taxpayer’s loot coming. And since Uncle taxpayer is paying a huge part of the tab, they, (the alleged schools of higher learning), add on new and absurd courses of alleged higher learning that actually graduate youth that can’t get a job in any such major learning they went BIG time in debt to pay for.

BTW, America’s colleges boast today an overwhelming majority of leftist professors, that explains the socialist mobs swarming around the likes of Bernie Sanders and AOC and now more and more Democrats.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

American’s like every other person on earth work, for a paycheck! It’s actually a “for profit” ideology. In a capitalist system, the for profit ideology has two advantages working diligently hard most usually allows one to demand better pay, i.e. more profit!

The only employers who ever gave me a raise were the rare exceptionally good people. Most greedy employers would sooner let a good man walk than to give a raise. I got FAR more raises by switching jobs than by working hard. And that is the experience of most workers. Employers will string you along for peanuts for as long as you let them get away with it. Loyalty and diligence are NOT generally rewarded.

Offering and delivering better pay most often delivers more diligently hard working workers and everybody ‘profits”

That is so true. And it is a wonderful concept. It is the epitome of win/win philosophy. Problem is: win/lose philosophy is more prevalent, so workers are generally forced to create their own raises by job hopping. You know, back when America was great, somebody with too many jobs on their resume was suspect of 'having some kind of problem,' so employers tended to shy away from hiring that person, even if they had a glowing resume. That has changed. Now, if you stuck with an employer too long you are identified as a schmuck with no motivation.

America’s problem again is the federal government and its meddling in the public’s education system. The feds rarely come up with any good ideas to educate our population..All of the really bad schools in America are public schools near totally reliant on the fed for their existence. The feds simply believe the solution to most everything is just throwing taxpayer’s money at it. They’ve even screwed up our nation’s schools of higher learning by throwing more and more taxpayer’s money at even the private institutions while claiming they’re, (the feds), supporting higher learning. Problem is, the more grant loot they throw at our alleged schools of higher learning, the higher those schools raise their tuition, just to keep the taxpayer’s loot coming. And since Uncle taxpayer is paying a huge part of the tab, they, (the alleged schools of higher learning), add on new and absurd courses of alleged higher learning that actually graduate youth that can’t get a job in any such major learning they went BIG time in debt to pay for.

BTW, America’s colleges boast today an overwhelming majority of leftist professors, that explains the socialist mobs swarming around the likes of Bernie Sanders and AOC and now more and more Democrats.

Hey, we could leave education up to the individual. No more public education. If you've got the money, you come from a rich family, then you can get an education. If not, then you don't deserve it. Capitalism at it's finest.

The only problem with that is other countries that recognize the importance of public education end up with a smarter populace and are better able to compete in the world.

Whoopsie!

Maybe it is to our advantage to put everything we can into public education after all.

If we don't, we will never know what vast potential we are leaving untapped.

 

[Robo]

People like doing a good job and accomplishing things. Our entire military operates without capitalism.

The size and scope of our entire military is supported completely by CAPITALISM!!!!! Including CRONY CAPITALISM!!!! Have you not noticed the Pentagon budget? That friend isn’t supported by socialism! It’s workers, “solders” and “sailors” work diligently because they’re informed daily that their lives may very well depend on their training and their abilities to learn and incorporate it. Besides that, ya can’t “QUIT” the military unless or until your enlistment is over, or you legally retire. Quitting the military otherwise produces jail time!

The militaries that operate by socialism are in places like the old Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela.

Very dedicated people who believe serving their nation is an excellent motivator. In the UK, health care professionals get advancement and higher pay if they produce better results, ie, their patients are healthier. Makes sense to me. They are proud to serve their nation just like those in the military. And let me tell you something. The people in the military are not a bunch of slackers.

I served in the military, I know about the military!

You need to move if only for awhile to the UK and experience their Single Payer program, their taxes, the quality of care, the cleanliness of their hospitals, their waiting times, the procedures available to you instead of preaching the flawed gospel of the socialist WHO.

I have family that have experienced Germany’s Single Payer system for some extended critical emergency care, they weren’t impressed! Facilities were less than average, cleanliness was just fair, care was less than diligent, caring and interested and next to America it wasn’t anything to promote. And because it was an emergency, they didn’t experience the atrocious wait time, And because they’re American citizens they didn’t experience the taxation. Other relations citizens there filled them in on those situations without pride. They say their government program is just OK once you get use to it and know what you can expect, but everybody does have coverage. But Germany also has private “for profit” insurance that folks willing and have the means buy and get faster care and better care.

Also you have to consider that Germany has a fraction of the population of America and thus a lower healthcare need rate or expectation and thereby a lower doctor shortage and Germany pays a fraction of their GDP into their own national defense compared to America. Germany depends on NATO and America finances the lion’s share of NATO. You cannot avoid that calculation when calculating an American Single Payer system. America can’t afford to protect the world, fight other nation’s wars and finance our Military Industrial Complex and afford a Single Payer Healthcare insurance system too!

 

[Robo]

I said, in response to the question of what quality of services should be provided: "Whatever can be reasonably provided. If a treatment is too expensive, logically that cannot be provided."

What about the people that can afford it? Do they just go ahead and die unnecessarily, or search for care in another country like the Canadians that come to America? Actually friend me thinks America will always demand a “for profit” system even if the government forces the pawns onto a Single Payer waiting list that can’t produce the latest and more expensive procedures and equipment.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

The size and scope of our entire military is supported completely by CAPITALISM!!!!! Including CRONY CAPITALISM!!!! Have you not noticed the Pentagon budget? That friend isn’t supported by socialism! It’s workers, “solders” and “sailors” work diligently because they’re informed daily that their lives may very well depend on their training and their abilities to learn and incorporate it. Besides that, ya can’t “QUIT” the military unless or until your enlistment is over, or you legally retire. Quitting the military otherwise produces jail time!

The militaries that operate by socialism are in places like the old Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela.



I served in the military, I know about the military!

You need to move if only for awhile to the UK and experience their Single Payer program, their taxes, the quality of care, the cleanliness of their hospitals, their waiting times, the procedures available to you instead of preaching the flawed gospel of the socialist WHO.

I have family that have experienced Germany’s Single Payer system for some extended critical emergency care, they weren’t impressed! Facilities were less than average, cleanliness was just fair, care was less than diligent, caring and interested and next to America it wasn’t anything to promote. And because it was an emergency, they didn’t experience the atrocious wait time, And because they’re American citizens they didn’t experience the taxation. Other relations citizens there filled them in on those situations without pride. They say their government program is just OK once you get use to it and know what you can expect, but everybody does have coverage. But Germany also has private “for profit” insurance that folks willing and have the means buy and get faster care and better care.

Also you have to consider that Germany has a fraction of the population of America and thus a lower healthcare need rate or expectation and thereby a lower doctor shortage and Germany pays a fraction of their GDP into their own national defense compared to America. Germany depends on NATO and America finances the lion’s share of NATO. You cannot avoid that calculation when calculating an American Single Payer system. America can’t afford to protect the world, fight other nation’s wars and finance our Military Industrial Complex and afford a Single Payer Healthcare insurance system too!

Our soldiers have no profit motive. They work hard anyway without it. They don't get paid more for working hard than they do if they slack off. They work hard because if they don't they get into trouble.

Most American workers only work hard to avoid getting fired. There is not usually any more pay for working harder. The capitalist earns more when profits are up, but the workers pay is fixed.

I doubt many people in Germany would like to give up their universal health care for what America has.

I see you are wisely staying away from learning or even commenting about Jonas Salk or Alfred Loomis. American heroes who gave us fantastic advancements not for profit but because they COULD. They simply felt that they could make a wonderful contribution to society so they did it. If you were to even acknowledge that these people did what they did just because they wanted to contribute all they could to society, it blows your profit motive theory out of the water. Better for your theory to just let the forbidden information scroll off the page and pretend it was never said. I understand. It's OK. You have to protect what you want to believe in. That means shutting your eyes to anything that challenges it. It's OK. I understand why that is done.

 

[Robo]

We already have wait times under our current system.

Mine are 3 to 5 days to see a specialist.

Some doctors don't even accept new patients at all, so the wait time for that doctor is infinity.

Doctors only refuse to see Medicare only, Medicaid only and folks without any insurance. It speaks volumes about what America’s doctors think of government program, the chinchy payments and mountains of paperwork.

 

[Robo]

To reduce wait times, the obvious solution is to have more capacity to provide services. So our medical school capacity needs to be expanded. Part of the problem with that is that is not happening. Ivy League schools do not expand. They simply become more and more elite. The size of each class each year remains the same. That is hurting our nation, adding to the class war. Doctoring is nothing but knowledge and skill plus experience. It's not like doctors are special. They are just smart dedicated people. Guess what. There are LOTS of smart dedicated people. We can and should train more doctors and medical professionals.

India and other foreign nations are picking up our slack in doctors, they love our “for profit” system” and we’re seeing more and more nurse Practitioners.

America’s colleges are elitist socialist bastions of leftist propaganda. They’re fueling the socialist next generation of socialism and the equal distribution of the misery, ENJOY! I’ll be moving on soon thank God!