## The Official Madmen Thread ##

Dixie said:
It's funny that Pete is the most liberal character on the show.
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Really how so? Is it because he was the only one who understood the civil rights movement and when the other white guys sat around whining "But why are they mad nowwwwwww" Pete answered "they're pissed because Lassie can eat in the cafeteria and they can't"?

So you admit that being a white liberal means viewing minorities as human beings and being a white conservative means viewing minorities as holding less value than a dog?

That's what I call progress Dixie!
 
Pete is actually a Rockerfeller Republican. A Rockerfeller Republican would be considered a left wing dangerous hippie these days. Dixie has a point there.

What does this tell us?
 
G R I N D said:
god I always feel sorry for pete campell. he's such a complicated character. I don't know why everyone hates on him.

bijou why are you saying don got the upperhand that she's in the commercial? don didn't want her in the commercial at first. Don wanted her home, not to have her career advance. At least that's the way I interpreted it.
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Because he's already got one foot out the door. That's how Draper deals with his fear of intimacy: he sabotages it. Remember the scene in the theater with Peggy? He mentioned helping someone succeed, and then they move on....that's when the light went on for him. That's why he was 'alone' at the bar in the final scene, while Megan was shooting the commercial...

Pete described himself perfectly in the scene with Beth when he told her about the 'friend' hew was visiting in the hospital. There's nothing complex about him. He's shallow, always looking outwardly to fulfill what must come from within. Always looking to get, never give.
 
How in the world is Pete liberal? I can see Ginsburg as liberal; also Peggy on a good day. I like how Harry fell 100% into the Krishna thing while chanting; that was a liberal sort of moment for him.

But Pete to me is a textbook socially inept, self-centered rightie, lacking in compassion or empathy for others. I feel bad for his character, but that's mainly because I tend to feel bad for everyone.
 
Bijou said:
Because he's already got one foot out the door. That's how Draper deals with his fear of intimacy: he sabotages it. Remember the scene in the theater with Peggy? He mentioned helping someone succeed, and then they move on....that's when the light went on for him. That's why he was 'alone' at the bar in the final scene, while Megan was shooting the commercial...

Pete described himself perfectly in the scene with Beth when he told her about the 'friend' hew was visiting in the hospital. There's nothing complex about him. He's shallow, always looking outwardly to fulfill what must come from within. Always looking to get, never give.
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watch the inside the episode that I linked and tell me if you come away with the same thoughts. I think don's actions here are genuine, it's pretty much implied by every acter and the writer/creator of the show.
 
G R I N D said:
watch the inside the episode that I linked and tell me if you come away with the same thoughts. I think don's actions here are genuine, it's pretty much implied by every acter and the writer/creator of the show.
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Hey thanks for posting that. Yes, I think his actions are genuine, too. He can't kid himself about who he loves and who Megan is - but for Don Draper, what goes along with 'letting go' of Megan to succeed? Priming himself for the next fix. As Weiner says in that insider clip, Megan's already gone - and that's why Don's alone and available at the bar.
 
Darla said:
Really how so? Is it because he was the only one who understood the civil rights movement and when the other white guys sat around whining "But why are they mad nowwwwwww" Pete answered "they're pissed because Lassie can eat in the cafeteria and they can't"?

So you admit that being a white liberal means viewing minorities as human beings and being a white conservative means viewing minorities as holding less value than a dog?

That's what I call progress Dixie!
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I've been watching MadMen for 5 years, and this is the first year they have really dealt with civil rights, so no... that's not what told me Pete was liberal. It is, however, a very good example of how the writers make him liberal.

Onceler said:
How in the world is Pete liberal? I can see Ginsburg as liberal; also Peggy on a good day. I like how Harry fell 100% into the Krishna thing while chanting; that was a liberal sort of moment for him.

But Pete to me is a textbook socially inept, self-centered rightie, lacking in compassion or empathy for others. I feel bad for his character, but that's mainly because I tend to feel bad for everyone.
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That's what is so ironic, you dummies are seeing a liberal portrayed on TV, and you hate everything about him. It must be like looking in the mirror, huh? Pete HATES Republicans, and very often likes or dislikes people on the basis of whether or not they are a Republican. "You just don't like him because he voted for Goldwater." In virtually every episode, Pete reveals his liberal leanings on some hot-topic issue of the time. Perhaps, being a devout lefty yourself, you simply miss some of the subtleties?

I see Ginsburg as apolitical, not really on either 'side' but more like a 'Bob Dylan' type, not wanting to be confined by labels. Being Jewish, chances are, he is probably Democrat, but a Democrat during that time, was not necessarily a liberal. Peggy, yes, she is the second most liberal character behind Pete. However, Peggy is conflicted between her more conservative roots and upbringing, and her ambition to 'break the glass ceiling.' Most of her 'liberalism' comes as the result of rebellion and rejection of her conservative upbringing, I believe.

It's important to note, as I have previously, that this is a television show, produced, written, and directed, by mostly liberals, for a viewing audiences consumption in 2012.... It's not some magical portal back to real-life in the 1960s. The totally fictional characters were created by mostly liberals, who have the perspective of the present, and the ability to mold the characters around perception and stereotypes of the past. It doesn't reflect reality, it is not written and produced to be a reality show. Common sense should tell us, advertising companies weren't either tossing water balloons out the windows or hiring black secretaries... those are the two opposing images we are presented, but the truth of the matter is, the vast majority of companies were neither example. It's presented to us in this show, because that's entertainment. MadMen intentionally delves into these issues to be evocative and make points, not to depict reality and how things actually were at all times.
 
Bijou said:
Hey thanks for posting that. Yes, I think his actions are genuine, too. He can't kid himself about who he loves and who Megan is - but for Don Draper, what goes along with 'letting go' of Megan to succeed? Priming himself for the next fix. As Weiner says in that insider clip, Megan's already gone - and that's why Don's alone and available at the bar.
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yes, i agree.
 
After reading this thread and all of your posts, I have a question for all of you.


You all do realize that the "Characters" are actors, that the show is scripted, and it's not a documentary?? :palm:
 
Okay, I have to watch it again because I tried so hard not to, but i fell asleep for a little while in the middle. Not for long, but since I was struggling to stay awake I do have to rewatch. I can't wait to see what everybody thinks. And what do you make of that Betty I'll hold her down scene? I used to really appreciate Betty but I guess they have lost me with her. I don't know what she is supposed to be about. Weiner says this is Betty feeling confident in a healthy relationship! I looked it up! wtf? Now if that was Betty being pissed that Henry told her he wants to spice things up and she was getting back at him, I could see that because that seems very Betty to me. But this is a confident Betty? In a healthy relationship?

I missed Joan but loved all the Peggy scenes. I wonder if she and Don are going to be after the same account this season?
 
Darla said:
Pete is actually a Rockerfeller Republican. A Rockerfeller Republican would be considered a left wing dangerous hippie these days. Dixie has a point there.

What does this tell us?
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Whatever the ideologies involved, history is generally kind to the GOP and takes at a minimum, a WTF approach to the Dems. :D
 
Anytime a 1-hour show goes for 2 hours, I'm always concerned that there will be a lot of filler, but this one kind of rocked. The Betty scenes have always tended more toward filler for me (like the Frodo/Sam scenes in Lord of the Rings), but I enjoyed a lot of what happened on her side this episode, especially her adventure into the village. And that rape "joke" was genuinely creepy; there were a few seconds of "is she being serious?"

This one was really a best of Don and best of Roger, as well - everything that we love to hate & hate to love about those characters in all its glory. Those two remind me so much of my parents' generation - a near constant midlife crisis with attempts to escape in booze, women, etc. I loved how Don's campaign for the hotel turned that kind of escape into a subtle hint of death, as well; like even at its best, life still has you thinking about its end on some level.

Peggy's story was cool, also.
 
Thing1 said:
Anytime a 1-hour show goes for 2 hours, I'm always concerned that there will be a lot of filler, but this one kind of rocked. The Betty scenes have always tended more toward filler for me (like the Frodo/Sam scenes in Lord of the Rings), but I enjoyed a lot of what happened on her side this episode, especially her adventure into the village. And that rape "joke" was genuinely creepy; there were a few seconds of "is she being serious?"

This one was really a best of Don and best of Roger, as well - everything that we love to hate & hate to love about those characters in all its glory. Those two remind me so much of my parents' generation - a near constant midlife crisis with attempts to escape in booze, women, etc. I loved how Don's campaign for the hotel turned that kind of escape into a subtle hint of death, as well; like even at its best, life still has you thinking about its end on some level.

Peggy's story was cool, also.
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I have to watch it again, on first thought it seems almost obsessed with death. Death or endings. I think this season is really going to be something. Don Draper is fascinating right now, because it seems as if his life is ending, the exciting part of it anyway. The part where he has the world by the balls, in all outwards appearances anyway. I love this show because I an watch every episode two and three times and each time see things I hadn't picked up on or misunderstood.

I don't know if Betty was joking and I am not sure Henry was really horrified, I just couldn't read that whole scene from one viewing.
 
Darla said:
I have to watch it again, on first thought it seems almost obsessed with death. Death or endings. I think this season is really going to be something. Don Draper is fascinating right now, because it seems as if his life is ending, the exciting part of it anyway. The part where he has the world by the balls, in all outwards appearances anyway. I love this show because I an watch every episode two and three times and each time see things I hadn't picked up on or misunderstood.

I don't know if Betty was joking and I am not sure Henry was really horrified, I just couldn't read that whole scene from one viewing.
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I agree (about the rewatching). It's such a well thought-out show. And it's a fine line for writers/producers to make it that smart & sophisticated in its various messages without talking down to the audience, which I don't think the show ever does.

Draper is a fantastic character. Jon Hamm is a great actor who will likely have a really long career after Mad Men, but I wonder if he'll still look back on this as the role of his life when all is said & done.
 
honestly it was ok but I was a bit underwhelmed by last nights premiere. I don't think betty serves much of a purpose on the show anymore and it's just a distraction.
 
I need to watch it again. I was distracted while watching it. Don is changing, I am not sure where he is headed though. I also thought the episode was pre occupied with death.
 
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