APP - The quest for knowledge.

Lowaicue said:
No, I do not have a lot of money. Far from it - although everything is comparative. Our tax rate is 16% across the board after a basic US$15,000 pa (I may be wrong on the figure). We have no capital gains tax and no VAT. We are basically a duty free economy with some notable exceptions.
Care is never witheld despite the fact that the system is open to abuse from mainlanders who try to have their babies here. They are never turned away once they reach the door even though they cost HK millions. If I wanted to have a higher standard of care I could pay for it and have done in the past. The fact is that in an emergency one is taken to ones local hospital and that suited me fine. The beds were modern, all singing, all dancing, the nurses generally were very pretty but, I must own to the fact, the food was crap.
Wait times may be long in non urgent cases but what is long? Long is maybe a couple of weeks or so. But the choice rests with the patient. I have another op scheduled for early December (my choice. I tend not to like being cut open!). If the condition worsens or causes me more concern I can call the hospital and go straight in.
Strange, isnt it, that there is very little public discussion about medical services here except, as in any society, when something goes wrong.
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Do you have private rooms? As to waits Low, that's not something that happens in our system. That HK may be a step above the UK with problems it should be noted that as HK grows the problems can easily magnify. I just googled a page that said that already HK is struggling with finding trained doctors and nurses to meet increasing demand. We are a nation with over 300 million who already have shortages of medical personnel. Your system is not for us.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Do you have private rooms? As to waits Low, that's not something that happens in our system. That HK may be a step above the UK with problems it should be noted that as HK grows the problems can easily magnify. I just googled a page that said that already HK is struggling with finding trained doctors and nurses to meet increasing demand. We are a nation with over 300 million who already have shortages of medical personnel. Your system is not for us.
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No we do not have private rooms unless one goes 'private'. I would guess that the price of those would be close to the US. But if, as I was, you are on your back and in some pain, despite drugs, and your stay is short, it is hardly woth while. My family wanted to transfer me.
A single room will cost approximately US$200 per day and all told a fairly simple operation with 2 days hospital stay will cost about US$7,200.00. The surgeons will often be the same people that work in the public hospitals, that's how they make their money!
I don't know how that all compares with the US. Probably on a par I would guess.
And yes, like other countries we have shortages. Its a market economy and there is more money to be earned in real estate and law. But I speak to my surgeon on a regular basis and we share a glass sometimes. Suits me.
A good friend went private and regrets it. He was over medicated and did not get the after care that I got. He subsequently asked why he was having to take more drugs than I was and was told, 'Ah well, you don't actually have to take them, we just thought you might prefer. And anyway, your insurance company will pay.'
He refrained from physical violence on that occasion.
I think the plain fact is that many Americans are prejudiced against anything that they imagine is big government because in their ignorance it smacks of what they think is socialism. I can understand that. Shades of the evil soviets, Castro, McCarthyism.
I studied some American history and understand a little more now. I re-watched 'To Hell and Back', 'The Great Escape' and 'The Alamo'. Well that IS what you learn from, isnt it?
 
Lowaicue said:
The reason I was absent from this forum was that I had several (to use a horrible americanism) health issues. I also had a massive heart attack the treatment for which cost me a staggering US$2750.00 plus about US$30 which included a month with a physiotherapist, and the first 3 months medications. Subsequent top ups ( for four drugs) costs me approximately US$8.75 for 3 months.
That's not magic. That's government of the people, for the people, by the people.
If you didnt have such a shakey economy and such myopic views of the world and its imagined dangers you could have the same.
You gonna refuse that?
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OMG, and here froggie and I were teasing you about going AWOL without telling us. I hope you're doing much, much better now. *scolding* Keep taking your meds and don't do that to us again! :)
 
Lowaicue said:
No we do not have private rooms unless one goes 'private'. I would guess that the price of those would be close to the US. But if, as I was, you are on your back and in some pain, despite drugs, and your stay is short, it is hardly woth while. My family wanted to transfer me.
A single room will cost approximately US$200 per day and all told a fairly simple operation with 2 days hospital stay will cost about US$7,200.00. The surgeons will often be the same people that work in the public hospitals, that's how they make their money!
I don't know how that all compares with the US. Probably on a par I would guess.
And yes, like other countries we have shortages. Its a market economy and there is more money to be earned in real estate and law. But I speak to my surgeon on a regular basis and we share a glass sometimes. Suits me.
A good friend went private and regrets it. He was over medicated and did not get the after care that I got. He subsequently asked why he was having to take more drugs than I was and was told, 'Ah well, you don't actually have to take them, we just thought you might prefer. And anyway, your insurance company will pay.'
He refrained from physical violence on that occasion.
I think the plain fact is that many Americans are prejudiced against anything that they imagine is big government because in their ignorance it smacks of what they think is socialism. I can understand that. Shades of the evil soviets, Castro, McCarthyism.
I studied some American history and understand a little more now. I re-watched 'To Hell and Back', 'The Great Escape' and 'The Alamo'. Well that IS what you learn from, isnt it?
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$200/day for a single room would be way cheap here. A simple operation with 2 days' stay would probably be close to $10K, at least where I live.

Edit:

One of my kids had oral surgery in the office, a 15-minute procedure under light sedation, total time spent in office about 2 hours, and the cost was over US$2,000. We pay through the nose for medical treatment here.
 
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Lowaicue said:
No we do not have private rooms unless one goes 'private'. I would guess that the price of those would be close to the US. But if, as I was, you are on your back and in some pain, despite drugs, and your stay is short, it is hardly woth while. My family wanted to transfer me.
A single room will cost approximately US$200 per day and all told a fairly simple operation with 2 days hospital stay will cost about US$7,200.00. The surgeons will often be the same people that work in the public hospitals, that's how they make their money!
I don't know how that all compares with the US. Probably on a par I would guess.
And yes, like other countries we have shortages. Its a market economy and there is more money to be earned in real estate and law. But I speak to my surgeon on a regular basis and we share a glass sometimes. Suits me.
A good friend went private and regrets it. He was over medicated and did not get the after care that I got. He subsequently asked why he was having to take more drugs than I was and was told, 'Ah well, you don't actually have to take them, we just thought you might prefer. And anyway, your insurance company will pay.'
He refrained from physical violence on that occasion.
I think the plain fact is that many Americans are prejudiced against anything that they imagine is big government because in their ignorance it smacks of what they think is socialism. I can understand that. Shades of the evil soviets, Castro, McCarthyism.
I studied some American history and understand a little more now. I re-watched 'To Hell and Back', 'The Great Escape' and 'The Alamo'. Well that IS what you learn from, isnt it?
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85% of Americans like their private rooms, prompt care and top of the line medical advances at their avail. Mediocre care is a norm for you and you are OK with it. I am OK with you having what you want. The tit for tat stories we could exchange is just silly. It's easy enough to google and come up with all the problems related to national health care and the fact that they are sucking the life out of the economies that have them. Our system needs to be reformed. We have some great ideas that have been fought by democrats for years; they want their socialized programs even though most American's are opposed to it. Your anti American rants were not curbed by your brush with the knife…too bad. Of course that also means you won't play the hypocrite if I tire of it and give it back~~~
 
christiefan915 said:
OMG, and here froggie and I were teasing you about going AWOL without telling us. I hope you're doing much, much better now. *scolding* Keep taking your meds and don't do that to us again! :)
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Oh it was a fun really. They wouldnt believe me when I said I had always had a low pulse. And when it hit 43 they all started to panic and wanted to gather the family at the bedside. The good thing was that I fell in love with several of the nurses and realised how much worse off I could have been. In the next room was a young lady with Lupus and not expected to survive. Made me cry a bit I must admit. Never actually saw her but felt I knew her a bit.
My phone was filled with lovely messages (some of which I had to delete!) and I had the biggest display of flowers and chocolates I have ever seen delivered to the house from two ex students.
 
Lowaicue said:
No we do not have private rooms unless one goes 'private'. I would guess that the price of those would be close to the US. But if, as I was, you are on your back and in some pain, despite drugs, and your stay is short, it is hardly woth while. My family wanted to transfer me.
A single room will cost approximately US$200 per day and all told a fairly simple operation with 2 days hospital stay will cost about US$7,200.00. The surgeons will often be the same people that work in the public hospitals, that's how they make their money!
I don't know how that all compares with the US. Probably on a par I would guess.
And yes, like other countries we have shortages. Its a market economy and there is more money to be earned in real estate and law. But I speak to my surgeon on a regular basis and we share a glass sometimes. Suits me.
A good friend went private and regrets it. He was over medicated and did not get the after care that I got. He subsequently asked why he was having to take more drugs than I was and was told, 'Ah well, you don't actually have to take them, we just thought you might prefer. And anyway, your insurance company will pay.'
He refrained from physical violence on that occasion.
I think the plain fact is that many Americans are prejudiced against anything that they imagine is big government because in their ignorance it smacks of what they think is socialism. I can understand that. Shades of the evil soviets, Castro, McCarthyism.
I studied some American history and understand a little more now. I re-watched 'To Hell and Back', 'The Great Escape' and 'The Alamo'. Well that IS what you learn from, isnt it?
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Sorry to hear about it, Low. Take care of yourself. You're my only connection, though it be cyber, left to HK. My friend in Atlanta put his daughter through med school and moved back last June. You and your fighting spirit were missed, several people were inquiring about you.
 
belme1201 said:
Sorry to hear about it, Low. Take care of yourself. You're my only connection, though it be cyber, left to HK. My friend in Atlanta put his daughter through med school and moved back last June. You and your fighting spirit were missed, several people were inquiring about you.
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I am truly touched .... but then, if you were to ask my wife she would say I always have been!
 
Lowaicue said:
The reason I was absent from this forum was that I had several (to use a horrible americanism) health issues. I also had a massive heart attack the treatment for which cost me a staggering US$2750.00 plus about US$30 which included a month with a physiotherapist, and the first 3 months medications. Subsequent top ups ( for four drugs) costs me approximately US$8.75 for 3 months.
That's not magic. That's government of the people, for the people, by the people.
If you didnt have such a shakey economy and such myopic views of the world and its imagined dangers you could have the same.
You gonna refuse that?
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Dear sweet man, I hope that all is better!!!!!! We missed you and now I am going to be keeping you in my thoughts!
 
Superfreak said:
Why do idiots continue to pretend that Obama's race is an issue? That is simply a strawman created to paint opponents as racists. If you want answers to educate yourself, I would suggest you not use such idiocy in your own posts.
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You have got to admit there is a portion of the population that it is JUST race and they are racists.
Generally, with most people, it is not race, but with some it is just a fact, jack and they don't want no black cat!
 
froggie said:
You have got to admit there is a portion of the population that it is JUST race and they are racists.
Generally, with most people, it is not race, but with some it is just a fact, jack and they don't want no black cat!
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I don't know anyone for whom race is the issue.
 
Another thing to remember is how many people come to the U.S. when they need serious care. The leadership of these beloved socialized states all come to america when it gets serious. True story.

Let's also not forget that innovation is funded almost exclusively on the backs of americans. The innovation engine would stop with price fixing and rationing. More true stories.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Another thing to remember is how many people come to the U.S. when they need serious care. The leadership of these beloved socialized states all come to america when it gets serious. True story.

Let's also not forget that innovation is funded almost exclusively on the backs of americans. The innovation engine would stop with price fixing and rationing. More true stories.
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Can you tell me how many Swedes have come to America specifically for care? How many Finns? Danes? French? Germans? Brits? Swiss?
Any figures for anyone? There must be some info somewhere after all you say it's a true story.
 
Ice Dancer said:
According to Low, he has a lot of money. He can find better medical care if need be. In his situation (if we are to take him at his word) his care met his need. There are plenty of stories just as compelling as his from universal care nations that speak of the long wait times, medicine that is refused, care that is withheld~~~ and all of this paid for at exorbitant tax rates to the people receiving this mediocre care. Why shouldn't they be happy with it, it's all they have known. As a final mention Canada has said that their system has caused them to go broke...they, the government, can no longer carry the burden. Translation of course is that their system is broken or broke to be more accurate.
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Once, again, Canada's system is not broke. Let's use an analogy.

Let's say you and your spouse are good friends with another couple. You tell your friend you and your spouse are going on a three day cruise. The cost is $1,000.00, all inclusive. You suggest your friend and his wife book the same cruise and you'll all have a great time. Your friend says, "I can't afford that!"

So, you and your spouse go on the cruise. You return and tell your friend you have some great pictures on your video camera and suggest getting together for dinner and viewing the short video. He suggests having dinner at his place and viewing the pictures on the new plasma TV he purchased while you were gone.

So, let's recap. He told you he couldn't afford a $1000 cruise but had the money for a $2000 plasma TV. Would you say he couldn't afford the cruise or he simply chose not to go?

That is how governments operate. They arbitrarily decide on what they're going to spend money and how much and if it's more they say they can't afford it. Of course, there are some things the government can not afford but to suggest a first world country can not afford to look after it's ill citizens is complete and utter rubbish.

As for the younger generation getting stuck with the bill that's another bogus argument. Here's why. Most baby boomers have done quite well for themselves, financially speaking. The economy had many more boom years than bust years during their lifetime. They have a decent nest egg and if illness strikes they have a good reserve plus they can afford an above average insurance plan so they don't want to pay into a universal system. And lastly, they enjoyed a universal system when they didn't have the money and were scraping along raising a family and building equity.

Now along comes the younger generation. After the cost of mortgage payments and raising kids coupled with poor employment opportunities and paying off the crisis brought on by the assorted financial crooks are they going to buy decent medical insurance? Considering they are going to have a tougher time, financially, than their parents there has never been a greater need for universal coverage.

The argument that governments can not afford universal coverage coupled with the argument the younger generation will suffer from such a system is nothing but a shameful, deceptive ploy promoted by nothing but greed.

When it comes to private insurance companies and private medical facilities how many 20-something's raising two kids and paying a mortgage have shares in those businesses?

Finally, the argument that people in countries with universal coverage are satisfied with mediocre care because that's all they have known let's keep in mind every country had a "pay of suffer" system at one time and not one country has reverted to it. Not one single country out of dozens.

There is no argument against universal coverage except greed.
 
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