APP - The quest for knowledge.

[cancel2 2022]

The best health care system in the world is right here in the US, when it comes to efficiency in getting in to see the doctor, technology, privacy and quality of care.

Costs are an issue and something that should be addressed. But pretending universal health care is better is simply nonsense. Look at the WHO report and read where it is that the US gets 'deductions' in its ranking... it is in the subjective areas like 'fairness' of payments etc...

So what experience do you have of other health systems around the world?

 

[Litmus]

Can you tell me how many Swedes have come to America specifically for care? How many Finns? Danes? French? Germans? Brits? Swiss?
Any figures for anyone? There must be some info somewhere after all you say it's a true story.

Are saying none come?

 

[apple0154]

I, for one, would love to see it pass just for you, so when the time comes and the government panel of administrators decide your ancient ass is too old for the extraordinary medical procedure to clear your bowel obstruction, there will be irrefutable proof you are and always were full of $hit.

Talking about asses if ones value is to be determined by their ass just think of the future. Just think of the extraordinary measures that will be employed regarding the female sex. Just think of a world full of women with perfect asses.

May I live long enough to experience nirvana.

 

[apple0154]

LINK Please!

Link? You're seeking a link to common sense?

 

[Lowaicue]

Are saying none come?

You brought it up. You said it was true. Now show us what you have as evidence. I dont know whether one or a million and one went to America, you do it seems.

Or dont you?

 

[Litmus]

You brought it up. You said it was true. Now show us what you have as evidence. I dont know whether one or a million and one went to America, you do it seems.

Or dont you?

Do you? If not, then why bother commenting? A quest for knowledge means more than demanding from strangers to be spoonfed data. Learning is more interactive than that. Your loud mouth has made you lazy.

"Educate my dumb ass...I'm a whiny european polesmoker! I'm too dumb to livee......" , you say.

 

[cancel2 2022]

But it is those costs which ration the service and which prevent the poor from receiving adequate care. How will you address the costs? You seem to be refusing to discuss the matter with your president.
I dont suppose that you are hiding behand the cost issue for ... er.... some other ... er ... reason, are you?
You talk of 'most'. Is that acceptable to you?

The issue really boils down to the fact that many get their healthcare via their employer and are happy enough because they don't pay for it. I think the issue could be improved relatively simply by making all of the health insurance companies become non profit making in the same way that BUPA and Nuffield are in the UK. All the profits in these organisations are ploughed back into healthcare and not given to shareholders. I just think it is shameful that Blue Cross and the HMOs are publically quoted companies.

http://www.nuffieldhealth.com/Individuals/About-Us/

 

[Litmus]

Link? You're seeking a link to common sense?

Evidence of the government saying no when they can't afford it. That's really such an ill-informed statement. Making the impossible happen is the corrupt joy of totalitarianism!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

If the best healthcare system in the world exists in the US why is no one happy with it? Why does it cost you TEN times what it would cost me? Why do the poor miss out?
You are in grave danger of believing right wing propaganda. Bit like those poor souls living under totalitarian systems.
North Koreans believe the same as you do about their system.

1) It is the best in the terms I described

2) As I stated (and you ignored), the ever increasing costs need to be addressed, but the current proposals DO NOT DO THAT.

3) As far as I am concerned, both parties can take the leap off a cliff. I think they are both worthless.

4) According to the WHO report so many on the left worship... the US is number one in the areas I mentioned.

5) You are foolish if you believe no one is happy with the current system. 85% of respondents state they are happy with their insurance.... That said, the majority do see the need for improvements and need to find a solution for the cost increases.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

IS race an issue? Why do you single that out for criticism? You are a racist nation and an ex president brought the subject into the limelight.
In the run up to the election race was played hard by people on the right. He was not American. He was black. He was Muslim. He was Kenyan. Dont criticise me for reflecting common American views.

Racism is an issue. No question.

But many on the left use racism any time their arguments do not have sound footing. To paint opponents of the proposed health care reforms as racists is nothing short of idiotic. Only a fool would buy into that crap. The fact that Jimmy Carter also mentioned it, means nothing.

I am criticizing you and justifiably so. Your first point in that post was to bring up race in your 'quest for knowledge'. That type of idiocy is going to be called out.

 

[Lowaicue]

Do you? If not, then why bother commenting? A quest for knowledge means more than demanding from strangers to be spoonfed data. Learning is more interactive than that. Your loud mouth has made you lazy.

"Educate my dumb ass...I'm a whiny european polesmoker! I'm too dumb to livee......" , you say.

Yes, of course.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

But it is those costs which ration the service and which prevent the poor from receiving adequate care. How will you address the costs? You seem to be refusing to discuss the matter with your president.
I dont suppose that you are hiding behand the cost issue for ... er.... some other ... er ... reason, are you?
You talk of 'most'. Is that acceptable to you?

Again with your ignorance???

You once again try to inject your fantasy 'alternate reasons' that people might be upset with the health care reforms being proposed.

You are also an idiot if you think people haven't tried to address the issue of costs with Obama. Even those within his own party have attempted to do just that. As far as this board is concerned, many options have been discussed to address the cost issues. But people like you don't care to actually READ those. You seem to prefer to just subtly call people racists.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

If you didnt have money you would have had the same service? Then tell me, please, why so many people are refused service in your country?

NO ONE is refused emergency care.

 

[Lowaicue]

Racism is an issue. No question.

But many on the left use racism any time their arguments do not have sound footing. To paint opponents of the proposed health care reforms as racists is nothing short of idiotic. Only a fool would buy into that crap. The fact that Jimmy Carter also mentioned it, means nothing.

I am criticizing you and justifiably so. Your first point in that post was to bring up race in your 'quest for knowledge'. That type of idiocy is going to be called out.

Race is one of the issues, with big government and partisanship, that I have learned of through AMERICAN news programmes, NOT via news programmes on any of our local channels (unless they take a feed, naturally). It was therefore relevant to pose the question.
Why are republicans frightened of it? Too close to home? Oh, by the way, I am not 'on the left' as you say. It would not be possible since I cannot vote in your elections because, fortunately, I do not live in the Disunited States of America.
When you say 'called out', what precisely do you mean? Isn't that an American sporting term or something? or is that 'timed out'. Your language is a continuous source of wonder and confusion.

 

[Lowaicue]

NO ONE is refused emergency care.

I would hope not. But I dont think anyone specified emergency care.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You have got to admit there is a portion of the population that it is JUST race and they are racists.
Generally, with most people, it is not race, but with some it is just a fact, jack and they don't want no black cat!

With the vast majority it is not about race. Yes, there are racists out there, no question. But answer this....

Had Hillary won and these same proposals been offered.... would there still be a protest?

(insert John Edwards if you feel 'sexism' would be the reason for Hillary)

 

[Lowaicue]

Again with your ignorance???

You once again try to inject your fantasy 'alternate reasons' that people might be upset with the health care reforms being proposed.

You are also an idiot if you think people haven't tried to address the issue of costs with Obama. Even those within his own party have attempted to do just that. As far as this board is concerned, many options have been discussed to address the cost issues. But people like you don't care to actually READ those. You seem to prefer to just subtly call people racists.

Yes of course. I bow to your superior intelligence.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I would hope not. But I dont think anyone specified emergency care.

The poor use the emergency care facilities for their medical needs...

this is one of the reasons emergency care facilities costs are high.

 

[Lowaicue]

The poor use the emergency care facilities for their medical needs...

this is one of the reasons emergency care facilities costs are high.

I started this thread in the genuine desire to get to the bottom of a subject that we, in the rest of the world, find almost completely unfathomable. Why, after the most disastrous eight years in your modern history do some people not wish to progress?
Unfortunately many posters put too much store by posting (not so) clever sound bite comments. That's not really surprising. excellence in conversation and debate not being something for which you, as a nation, are known.
There was a brief period in the spring and early summer, when we stopped laughing at you as the buffoons you were. This issue has tended to spread our smiles once again.
You really are a very stupid nation.

 

[Canceled2]

You really do like to obfuscate a simple point Apple. More need and less money is not an argument for spending more. The less money is due to nationaized health care, which is never free and never sustainable without a growing population. The problem is that the socialist's who want free (governemnt controlled tax payer supported) everything, are also the group who want population control and other mad scientist controls over human lives. I really think the problem is that you all do too many drugs and your minds are spun.


Link here

"The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in taxes each year, partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40 percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

The system is going broke, says the federation, which campaigns for tax reform and private enterprise in health care.

It calculates that at present rates, Ontario will be spending 85 percent of its budget on health care by 2035. “We can’t afford a state monopoly on health care anymore,” says Tasha Kheiriddin, Ontario director of the federation. “We have to examine private alternatives as well.”

The federal government and virtually every province acknowledge there’s a crisis: a lack of physicians and nurses, state-of-the-art equipment and funding. In Ontario, more than 10,000 nurses and hospital workers are facing layoffs over the next two years unless the provincial government boosts funding, says the Ontario Hospital Association, which represents health care providers in the province."

Once, again, Canada's system is not broke. Let's use an analogy.

Let's say you and your spouse are good friends with another couple. You tell your friend you and your spouse are going on a three day cruise. The cost is $1,000.00, all inclusive. You suggest your friend and his wife book the same cruise and you'll all have a great time. Your friend says, "I can't afford that!"

So, you and your spouse go on the cruise. You return and tell your friend you have some great pictures on your video camera and suggest getting together for dinner and viewing the short video. He suggests having dinner at his place and viewing the pictures on the new plasma TV he purchased while you were gone.

So, let's recap. He told you he couldn't afford a $1000 cruise but had the money for a $2000 plasma TV. Would you say he couldn't afford the cruise or he simply chose not to go?

That is how governments operate. They arbitrarily decide on what they're going to spend money and how much and if it's more they say they can't afford it. Of course, there are some things the government can not afford but to suggest a first world country can not afford to look after it's ill citizens is complete and utter rubbish.

As for the younger generation getting stuck with the bill that's another bogus argument. Here's why. Most baby boomers have done quite well for themselves, financially speaking. The economy had many more boom years than bust years during their lifetime. They have a decent nest egg and if illness strikes they have a good reserve plus they can afford an above average insurance plan so they don't want to pay into a universal system. And lastly, they enjoyed a universal system when they didn't have the money and were scraping along raising a family and building equity.

Now along comes the younger generation. After the cost of mortgage payments and raising kids coupled with poor employment opportunities and paying off the crisis brought on by the assorted financial crooks are they going to buy decent medical insurance? Considering they are going to have a tougher time, financially, than their parents there has never been a greater need for universal coverage.

The argument that governments can not afford universal coverage coupled with the argument the younger generation will suffer from such a system is nothing but a shameful, deceptive ploy promoted by nothing but greed.

When it comes to private insurance companies and private medical facilities how many 20-something's raising two kids and paying a mortgage have shares in those businesses?

Finally, the argument that people in countries with universal coverage are satisfied with mediocre care because that's all they have known let's keep in mind every country had a "pay of suffer" system at one time and not one country has reverted to it. Not one single country out of dozens.

There is no argument against universal coverage except greed.