What's your spiritual faith and why do you believe in it?

[Celticguy]

How could he "invalidate" Islam? There was no Islam until he started it.

All those people who split of from the jews all those years before sure would be amused to hear that. The worshiped the God of Abraham but Mo's version was rather different and sure favored a political islam. Fit nicely with Mo's agenda curiously enough.

 

[Minister of Truth]

The Confederacy was never a country, it was a treasonous rebellion that was crushed. If I would've been in charge, a lot of southern heads would've been severed, justice would've been done.



Wow, that would do the slave owners so much good, to be re-annexed after the military governors had already freed their slaves. What a fool, and a traitor.

No, they were a separate country. Flag, constitution, capital, etc. But I conquer with the mass severing of heads - that should have happened.

Also, Muhammad was gay...

 

[I'm Watermark]

I don't understand his point about the capital "G" stuff.

It's to differentiate between god as a common noun, and God as a name. I think he's saying that because Muslims refer to God as Allah, their god is different.

 

[christiefan915]

All those people who split of from the jews all those years before sure would be amused to hear that. The worshiped the God of Abraham but Mo's version was rather different and sure favored a political islam. Fit nicely with Mo's agenda curiously enough.

How about a cite?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

If something is an association of another thing they collectively become something (ergo, if God has foreknowledge and predestination exists then obviously God's foreknowledge comes into effect on whether God knows a thing and wills it or knows a thing and does not will it which also leads into another argument ergo, the argument of good and evil). You're amateur attempt at philosophy is ignorant at best. You can simply google pre-destination and God's foreknowledge and you'll see many links on the subject. Obviously you never took philosophy nor philosophy of religion so sit the fuck down little boy us grown people are discussing something that is obviously beyond the fucking limits of what little mind you have! (Whew)

oh stop being such a stupid fuck....I have a Masters in Theology.....saying predestination means omniscience is nothing more than pure ignorance.....you can honestly say that predestination requires a God with omniscience......but you can also say that a car needs gasoline.....that doesn't mean a car IS gasoline.....

 

[Sun Devil]

oh stop being such a stupid fuck....I have a Masters in Theology.....saying predestination means omniscience is nothing more than pure ignorance.....you can honestly say that predestination requires a God with omniscience......but you can also say that a car needs gasoline.....that doesn't mean a car IS gasoline.....

OMG you are lucky I'm drunk after me passing my hard exam (No gay shit required) I spotted a contradiction. Either you take advantage of my drunkenness and edit, or I highlight your contradiction

 

[/MSG/]

Instead of a cross over my grave, I'm going to put a Carl Sagan sculpture.

All hail the Sagan!

I'm putting a monument to myself. Also, I've commissioned a oil painting of myself. Riding a shark...while punching Zeus in the face....while drinking....

 

[christiefan915]

OMG you are lucky I'm drunk after me passing my hard exam (No gay shit required) I spotted a contradiction. Either you take advantage of my drunkenness and edit, or I highlight your contradiction

Lol.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

OMG you are lucky I'm drunk after me passing my hard exam (No gay shit required) I spotted a contradiction. Either you take advantage of my drunkenness and edit, or I highlight your contradiction

so now you're trying to claim your ignorance is merely drunkeness?......

 

[Phantasmal]

OMG you are lucky I'm drunk after me passing my hard exam (No gay shit required) I spotted a contradiction. Either you take advantage of my drunkenness and edit, or I highlight your contradiction

Another drunk poster from USC! I love it.

congrats on passing your exam!

 

[Sun Devil]

God as omniscient IS a fundamentalist concept......however, being omniscient does not equal predestination, which again, is NOT a fundamentalist concept......in truth, any fundamentalist would probably attack you if you said he believed in it.....it was one of the main points of contention between the reformed baptists and the mainline baptist churches.....

I never said foreknowledge equates to predestination that is your inability to comprehend simple words doing the interpreting for you. I said there is a RELATIONSHIP and in that relationship it encompasses one of God's attributes.

Here is what I said regarding that:"Actually pre-destination encompasses a lot of Christian philosophies because it also encompasses one of the main attributes of God which is being omniscent." I never said predestination is foreknowledge, I said predestination encompasses the Christian philosophy regarding God's foreknowledge Mr. Masters of Theology (Which I think it utter bullshit since you assume I said one is which I clearly didn't).

no...it does not "define" the wall.....it just sticks to it.......the material it is constructed of does a much better job of defining it.....is it a brick wall?.....a paper wall?.....

by the way, this divergence does nothing to mask the fact you know fuck-all about predestination.....

My knowledge of predestination is far superior to yours since I actually defined how God's foreknowledge and predestination is a problematic thought. In actuality many philosophers not just Calvinists as you say, have contemplated on predestination and as I said before this was an issue many philosophers from Jewish to Muslim have tackled this issue. According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy it says about the following:

"Historically, the tension between foreknowledge and the exercise of free will was addressed in a religious context. According to orthodox views in the West, God was claimed to be omniscient (and hence in possession of perfect foreknowledge) and yet God was supposed to have given humankind free will. Attempts to solve the apparent contradiction often involved attributing to God special properties, for example, being “outside” of time."

See Reference: http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/

The following is from Maimonides concerning how foreknowledge of morality may lead to another problem:

…”Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest ‘He knows’, then it necessarily follows that [that] man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God’s knowledge would be imperfect.…” (1966, pp. 99-100)

The following is an example of the relationship between foreknowledge and predestination:

"God is omniscient and His knowledge is timeless—that is, God knows timelessly all that has happened, is happening, and will happen. Therefore, if He knows timelessly that a person will perform such-and-such an action, then it is impossible for that person not to perform that action." See: http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/#H1

The following is coming from a Christian website (so you don't think I'm purely targeting secular sites:

But what about Romans 8:29 where it says that those “He foreknew, He also predestined”? Doesn’t that seem to say that predestination is based upon the foreknowledge of God? Of course, the answer is yes, it does teach that predestination is based on the foreknowledge of God. But what does the word foreknowledge mean? Does it mean “based upon God’s knowledge of the future,” meaning God simply looks down through the future and sees who will believe the gospel message and then predestines or elects them? If that were the case, it would contradict the verses above from Romans and Ephesians that make it very clear election is not based on anything man does or will do.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-foreknowledge.html#ixzz2tL54cQqi

oh stop being such a stupid fuck....I have a Masters in Theology.....saying predestination means omniscience is nothing more than pure ignorance.....you can honestly say that predestination requires a God with omniscience......but you can also say that a car needs gasoline.....that doesn't mean a car IS gasoline.....

So judging by your previous response you think predestination is some sort of Calvinist idea when in fact even using Christian examples (mainstream Christian) there is a relationship between foreknowledge and predestination. You apparently want to argue that I said predestination is foreknowledge when in fact I've made it clear that they are merely in relationship philosophically. If God knows something in the future before it happens and then creates the world while knowing the future of the world, the causality of such would indeed relate to what God knows. God isn't going to create a world where he doesn't know future actions that would be, as Maimonides stated, make God's knowledge imperfect. So as you can see, you may want to concede in that foreknowledge and predestination do in fact have a relationship especially when it comes to spiritual matters concerning the Abrahamic faiths.

Next time Mr. Masters of Theology (which I highly doubt you have judging by the level of ignorance you've displayed here and elsewhere) next time you want to do a side debate, make sure you know what you're talking about and make sure you take advantage of me being drunk. Because obviously I've exposed how ignorant you are when it comes to philosophy. Since you have a Masters allow me to ask you a few questions:

1) What writing style did you use to write your Masters Thesis (APA, MLA, etc)

2) What was your thesis on? Did you orally defend it or did you merely write the thesis?

3) What school did you attend?

 

[Sun Devil]

he made his own scripture which was given precidence over the original and took things in a far different direction.
Now you could say 'but thats what thatJesus did' but it doesnt fly as it was the conclusion of prophesy. Mo was a false prophet who invalidated islam.

You can say the same thing about the "authors" of the Bible. People say they were "inspired by God" yet there are errors in the Bible.

 

[cawacko]

SD, I'm a Christian but the truth is I'm not that religious of a person. So please excuse my brevity and simplicity on the subject. When you got into Islam did you look into the Nation of Islam under Farrakhan?

 

[Phantasmal]

I never said foreknowledge equates to predestination that is your inability to comprehend simple words doing the interpreting for you. I said there is a RELATIONSHIP and in that relationship it encompasses one of God's attributes.

Here is what I said regarding that:"Actually pre-destination encompasses a lot of Christian philosophies because it also encompasses one of the main attributes of God which is being omniscent." I never said predestination is foreknowledge, I said predestination encompasses the Christian philosophy regarding God's foreknowledge Mr. Masters of Theology (Which I think it utter bullshit since you assume I said one is which I clearly didn't).



My knowledge of predestination is far superior to yours since I actually defined how God's foreknowledge and predestination is a problematic thought. In actuality many philosophers not just Calvinists as you say, have contemplated on predestination and as I said before this was an issue many philosophers from Jewish to Muslim have tackled this issue. According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy it says about the following:

"Historically, the tension between foreknowledge and the exercise of free will was addressed in a religious context. According to orthodox views in the West, God was claimed to be omniscient (and hence in possession of perfect foreknowledge) and yet God was supposed to have given humankind free will. Attempts to solve the apparent contradiction often involved attributing to God special properties, for example, being “outside” of time."

See Reference: http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/

The following is from Maimonides concerning how foreknowledge of morality may lead to another problem:

…”Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest ‘He knows’, then it necessarily follows that [that] man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God’s knowledge would be imperfect.…” (1966, pp. 99-100)

The following is an example of the relationship between foreknowledge and predestination:

"God is omniscient and His knowledge is timeless—that is, God knows timelessly all that has happened, is happening, and will happen. Therefore, if He knows timelessly that a person will perform such-and-such an action, then it is impossible for that person not to perform that action." See: http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/#H1

The following is coming from a Christian website (so you don't think I'm purely targeting secular sites:

But what about Romans 8:29 where it says that those “He foreknew, He also predestined”? Doesn’t that seem to say that predestination is based upon the foreknowledge of God? Of course, the answer is yes, it does teach that predestination is based on the foreknowledge of God. But what does the word foreknowledge mean? Does it mean “based upon God’s knowledge of the future,” meaning God simply looks down through the future and sees who will believe the gospel message and then predestines or elects them? If that were the case, it would contradict the verses above from Romans and Ephesians that make it very clear election is not based on anything man does or will do.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination-foreknowledge.html#ixzz2tL54cQqi



So judging by your previous response you think predestination is some sort of Calvinist idea when in fact even using Christian examples (mainstream Christian) there is a relationship between foreknowledge and predestination. You apparently want to argue that I said predestination is foreknowledge when in fact I've made it clear that they are merely in relationship philosophically. If God knows something in the future before it happens and then creates the world while knowing the future of the world, the causality of such would indeed relate to what God knows. God isn't going to create a world where he doesn't know future actions that would be, as Maimonides stated, make God's knowledge imperfect. So as you can see, you may want to concede in that foreknowledge and predestination do in fact have a relationship especially when it comes to spiritual matters concerning the Abrahamic faiths.

Next time Mr. Masters of Theology (which I highly doubt you have judging by the level of ignorance you've displayed here and elsewhere) next time you want to do a side debate, make sure you know what you're talking about and make sure you take advantage of me being drunk. Because obviously I've exposed how ignorant you are when it comes to philosophy. Since you have a Masters allow me to ask you a few questions:

1) What writing style did you use to write your Masters Thesis (APA, MLA, etc)

2) What was your thesis on? Did you orally defend it or did you merely write the thesis?

3) What school did you attend?

I question his claim as well.

He gave an example once and it didn't even reach middle school level.

It was quite amusing.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I never said foreknowledge equates to predestination that is your inability to comprehend simple words doing the interpreting for you. I said there is a RELATIONSHIP and in that relationship it encompasses one of God's attributes.

Post #42 I said that predestination wasn't a fundamentalist concept.......you chose to contest that, saying it was, because omniscience was a fundamentalist concept......I pointed out they were not the same thing, you've been arguing against that ever since....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

My knowledge of predestination is far superior to yours since

then why do you believe predestination means omniscient......I note that in your 'learned' treatise you made no attempt to back up that singularly idiotic claim.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I question his claim as well.

you are free to question anything you wish.....however, it only underscores your own ignorance.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Since you have a Masters allow me to ask you a few questions:

1) What writing style did you use to write your Masters Thesis (APA, MLA, etc)

2) What was your thesis on? Did you orally defend it or did you merely write the thesis?

3) What school did you attend?[/FONT]

.....right....since we all know its a great idea to share personally identifying information on this board....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

the entire conversation up to this point....

What about predestination? That's a fundamentalist concept that would conflict with my egalitarian values if it wasn't for the fact that I'm better than ya'll.

???.....predestination isn't a fundamentalist concept.....about the only denominations that give it lip service are the Calvinists....and even then, it doesn't teach what you imply.....

Actually pre-destination encompasses a lot of Christian philosophies because it also encompasses one of the main attributes of God which is being omniscent.

God as omniscient IS a fundamentalist concept......however, being omniscient does not equal predestination, which again, is NOT a fundamentalist concept......in truth, any fundamentalist would probably attack you if you said he believed in it.....it was one of the main points of contention between the reformed baptists and the mainline baptist churches.....

Focusing on the bold

Being omniscent does relate to pre-destination because it all falls under the same umbrella. For example if God is all-knowing and knows a Roman soldier is going to throw a newborn baby off a cliff because of a birth defect yet does nothing then this inaction falls under the category of morality and whether God's inaction of intervention was morally good or evil. Similar with God knowing Moses parting the Red Sea. According to Christian philosophers, God knew Moses was going to be chosen to lead the Israelites to the Promised Land and knew he was going to part the Red Sea to get there and "willed" it so. So in that respect since God being omniscent knew this beforehand and willed it (via divine intervention through providence) God not only knew beforehand, he intervened...As you can see all of this is connected and once connected it leads to another problem, as in the case of Moses this leads to the problem of Freewill (whether Moses acted on his own or was it divine influence?)

paint is related to walls.......paint is not walls......

But once paint is on the walls it becomes a part of it and it actually defines the walls....Depending on color =)

no...it does not "define" the wall.....it just sticks to it.......the material it is constructed of does a much better job of defining it.....is it a brick wall?.....a paper wall?.....

by the way, this divergence does nothing to mask the fact you know fuck-all about predestination.....

If something is an association of another thing they collectively become something (ergo, if God has foreknowledge and predestination exists then obviously God's foreknowledge comes into effect on whether God knows a thing and wills it or knows a thing and does not will it which also leads into another argument ergo, the argument of good and evil). You're amateur attempt at philosophy is ignorant at best. You can simply google pre-destination and God's foreknowledge and you'll see many links on the subject. Obviously you never took philosophy nor philosophy of religion so sit the fuck down little boy us grown people are discussing something that is obviously beyond the fucking limits of what little mind you have! (Whew)

oh stop being such a stupid fuck....I have a Masters in Theology.....saying predestination means omniscience is nothing more than pure ignorance.....you can honestly say that predestination requires a God with omniscience......but you can also say that a car needs gasoline.....that doesn't mean a car IS gasoline.....

OMG you are lucky I'm drunk after me passing my hard exam (No gay shit required) I spotted a contradiction. Either you take advantage of my drunkenness and edit, or I highlight your contradiction

so now you're trying to claim your ignorance is merely drunkeness?......

I never said foreknowledge equates to predestination that is your inability to comprehend simple words doing the interpreting for you. I said there is a RELATIONSHIP and in that relationship it encompasses one of God's attributes.

apparently saying "If something is an association of another thing they collectively become something" is different in your mind from saying "predesination" is "omniscience"?.....did it somehow over the course of this conversation not become obvious that what I was objecting to was the equating of the two terms?......now, you try to weasel out of it by saying it wasn't a part of the conversation?.....if that's the case, why didn't you just say "oh, you're right" on the very first post?.......

 

[Sun Devil]

SD, I'm a Christian but the truth is I'm not that religious of a person. So please excuse my brevity and simplicity on the subject. When you got into Islam did you look into the Nation of Islam under Farrakhan?

Hell No!

Back in the 60's my mother and brother were in the Nation of Islam but growing up, I read up on Malcolm X and how the Nation of Islam pretty much killed the man after his break with the nation and his new realization about "true Islam" when he went on Hajj or the pilgrimage to Mecca. Most of my knowledge of Islam came from actually attending mosques, reading Yusuf Ali's translation of the Qur'an. I actually have a transliteration of the Holy Qur'an. But in no way did I ever consider N.O.I. Maybe if I was living in the 40's and 50's I probably would due to racial segregation but not now.