APP - Why should people believe in Liberalism?

Wickedjews said:
The French revolution was corrupted. It wasn't a radical version of liberalism. It wasn't liberalism at all.
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What's not liberal about a bunch of envious men who get their way, and then quickly devolve into groups of paranoid monsters that begin killing off one another, along with the general population?
 
Southern Man said:
Social liberalism can easily be rejected for what it is, rejection of traditional values blended with "white guilt".
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I see my short fable went over the head of the wingnuts on JPP. That is to be expected as if they thought they would not be wingnuts. But just to be fair and liberal in hopes a few are not completely brain dead: The little boy does not understand the source of his name in the same manner that SM knows nothing about social liberalism. It is mere sloganizing on his part without thought. What is 'white guilt' but a prejudiced rationalization used to condemn and not help. But that is all wingnuts do. http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/HIRRHE.html?show=reviews

Bird brains like yurt, ppp, and sm can only condemn with not an iota of truth or reality. Stupidity it seems. knows no bounds.

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:8-9

www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0610100318oct10,1,1903801.story

What it means to be a liberal

By Geoffrey R. Stone. Geoffrey R. Stone, a law professor at the University of Chicago, is the author of "Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime."


"For most of the past four decades, liberals have been in retreat. Since the election of Richard Nixon in 1968, Republicans have controlled the White House 70 percent of the time and Republican presidents have made 86 percent of the U.S. Supreme Court appointments. In many quarters, the word "liberal" has become a pejorative. Part of the problem is that liberals have failed to define themselves and to state clearly what they believe. As a liberal, I find that appalling.

In that light, I thought it might be interesting to try to articulate 10 propositions that seem to me to define "liberal" today. Undoubtedly, not all liberals embrace all of these propositions, and many conservatives embrace at least some of them.

Moreover, because 10 is a small number, the list is not exhaustive. And because these propositions will in some instances conflict, the "liberal" position on a specific issue may not always be predictable. My goal, however, is not to end discussion, but to invite debate.

1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.

2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)

3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."

4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)

5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.

6. Liberals believe government has a fundamental responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support government programs to improve health care, education, social security, job training and welfare for the neediest members of society. It is liberals who maintain that a national community is like a family and that government exists in part to "promote the general welfare."

7. Liberals believe government should never act on the basis of sectarian faith. It is liberals who have opposed and continue to oppose school prayer and the teaching of creationism in public schools and who support government funding for stem-cell research, the rights of gays and lesbians and the freedom of choice for women.

8. Liberals believe courts have a special responsibility to protect individual liberties. It is principally liberal judges and justices who have preserved and continue to preserve freedom of expression, individual privacy, freedom of religion and due process of law. (Conservative judges and justices more often wield judicial authority to protect property rights and the interests of corporations, commercial advertisers and the wealthy.)

9. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, for without such protection liberalism is impossible. This, of course, is less a tenet of liberalism than a reply to those who attack liberalism. The accusation that liberals are unwilling to protect the nation from internal and external dangers is false. Because liberals respect competing values, such as procedural fairness and individual dignity, they weigh more carefully particular exercises of government power (such as the use of secret evidence, hearsay and torture), but they are no less willing to use government authority in other forms (such as expanded police forces and international diplomacy) to protect the nation and its citizens.

10. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, without unnecessarily sacrificing constitutional values. It is liberals who have demanded and continue to demand legal protections to avoid the conviction of innocent people in the criminal justice system, reasonable restraints on government surveillance of American citizens, and fair procedures to ensure that alleged enemy combatants are in fact enemy combatants. Liberals adhere to the view expressed by Brandeis some 80 years ago: "Those who won our independence ... did not exalt order at the cost of liberty."

Consider this an invitation. Are these propositions meaningful? Are they helpful? Are they simply wrong? As a liberal, how would you change them or modify the list? As a conservative, how would you draft a similar list for conservatives?"


Geoffrey R. Stone, a law professor at the University of Chicago, is the author of "Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime."
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Absolutely today's liberals. Most fiscal/SSE touting conservatives are more in line with the laissez faire monopoly capitalist of the gilded age of the late 19th century and social conservative would simply adore the absolute authority of the divine monarchs.
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Your view, as usual, is baseless and retarded. :good4u:
 
Which views are amenable to an individually oriented and free society?

Internationalist Fascist Globalization isn't it.

the goal of life is not to efficiency. that's a slave mentality.
 
I am still waiting for someone to tell us a desireable "traditional value" that was rejected by liberals for no reason other than liberalism.

Anyone?
 
WinterBorn said:
I am still waiting for someone to tell us a desireable "traditional value" that was rejected by liberals for no reason other than liberalism.

Anyone?
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The desire to improve the lives of average americans.

Liberalism (and globalization) are all about destroying america, because we're bad people.
 
I am still waiting for someone to tell us a desireable "traditional value" that was rejected by liberals for no reason other than liberalism.

Anyone besides a delusional paranoid?
 
WinterBorn said:
I am still waiting for someone to tell us a desireable "traditional value" that was rejected by liberals for no reason other than liberalism.

Anyone besides a delusional paranoid?
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What am i deluded about. Name one thing and i'll prove you wrong.

its easy for you to be right, when you simply ignore truth, isn't it?
 
WinterBorn said:
I am still waiting for someone to tell us a desireable "traditional value" that was rejected by liberals for no reason other than liberalism.

Anyone besides a delusional paranoid?
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Given the simple minded thread opener, no answer is possible when that's the best and deepest your thought can travel. If there was ever a question on why in power conservatism failed, the wingnuts above and the last administration stand as examples why. In the links below, is why they cling to fantasy, and require liberalism - without liberalism the spotlight would shine on them and there would be nothing, nothing at all.


http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.


http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/07/12/its_the_conservatism_stupid.php

1. Conservatism has failed.
2. Conservatism is the ideology of the past—a past we don’t want to return to.
3. Conservatives are cowards, and they hope you are, too. We’re afraid, they shout.

The Failure of Antigovernment Conservatism
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_failure_of_antigovernment_conservatism

conservatives can't
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0607.wolfe.html

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/...cs/war_room/2010/02/17/mount_vernon_statement

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/393

http://www.conservativenannystate.org/cns.html

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0701/na...worst-president-modern-era-5th-worst-history/
 
Caboose said:
Oh really now? Care to elaborate on that one? How were the founders socially conservative?
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Read the Declaration of Independence. Who were they referring to when they used the word "Creator"? Many Liberals today don't believe in God, and most don't believe in natural rights. They think the government gives us rights. Al Fucking Gore even stated that once during a debate.
 
So.... they believed in god? And that makes them social conservatives?

I believe in god (well, A god).
 
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