Family Value Conservatives: Sarah Palin's Daughter Pregnant at 17..and Not married...

My major point is against those who argue this life begins at conception and argue against pills/devices that prevent implantation.
 
RStringfield said:
No, if anything you have it backwards. According to most doctors pregnancy begins at implantation. Some use conception and pregnancy as to mean implantation. Others define conception as fertilization.
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I even linked you up to WebMD. You are simply mistaken and continuing to press what is clearly wrong. Most doctors believe pregnancy begins before conception.
 
Care4all said:
well if the prolifers are strict Catholics, they are not suppose to take or believe, that birth control of any kind other than the rhythmic method is ok either...maybe they are mixing the two together? or ignoring the medical definitions of pregnancy stages?
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This actually encourages people to engage in actions that cause preventable "deaths" if life begins at conception/fertilization.
 
Is it morally wrong to kill something that doesn't care whether or not you kill it, and has its wishes no more gone against by being killed than by being allowed to develop?
 
RStringfield said:
My major point is against those who argue this life begins at conception and argue against pills/devices that prevent implantation.
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So the fact that there are pills and devices that prevent implantation makes the decision about whether life happens at conception?



So far I have seen the definition of conception stated at least two different way from two different medical websites.

Stedman's Medical Dictionary is not some religious wacko's version of medicine. It is a respected and accepted medical text.

At the very least, if these differing versions appear in medical sites, then the confusion amoung laypeople is understandable.
 
Solitary said:
So the fact that there are pills and devices that prevent implantation makes the decision about whether life happens at conception?

So far I have seen the definition of conception stated at least two different way from two different medical websites.

Stedman's Medical Dictionary is not some religious wacko's version of medicine. It is a respected and accepted medical text.

At the very least, if these differing versions appear in medical sites, then the confusion amoung laypeople is understandable.
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Stedman's defines conception as fertilization.

http://dictionary.webmd.com/terms/conception

conception
Pronunciation (kon-sep′shŭn)

1. Act of forming a general idea or notion.
2. Fertilization of oocyte by a sperm.
 
Watermark said:
Is it morally wrong to kill something that doesn't care whether or not you kill it, and has its wishes no more gone against by being killed than by being allowed to develop?
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I just want to say that I love how you have managed to rationalize this to yourself.
 
Can we get back to the topic at hand? You all know that most Republicans would be foaming at the mouth to call a 17 year old Chelsea a cum guzzling gutter slut if she had gotten pregnant. They would have screamed about how lib-ruhls can't raise children and how their left wing politics were completely responsible for this. Shit GL so much as turn this shit back around and said that it WAS because of permissive liberalism that Palin's daughter is pregnant. Fess up folks, if this was Biden's 17 years old Dixie and Thor and some of the others would be doing nothing but talking shit. Bunch of fucking hypocrits.
 
Socrtease said:
Can we get back to the topic at hand? You all know that most Republicans would be foaming at the mouth to call a 17 year old Chelsea a cum guzzling gutter slut if she had gotten pregnant. They would have screamed about how lib-ruhls can't raise children and how their left wing politics were completely responsible for this. Shit GL so much as turn this shit back around and said that it WAS because of permissive liberalism that Palin's daughter is pregnant. Fess up folks, if this was Biden's 17 years old Dixie and Thor and some of the others would be doing nothing but talking shit. Bunch of fucking hypocrits.
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In 1776, 1/3 of all marriages were followed by births within about 5 months. The whole, "get her pregnant; take her to the alter expectation" continued through the '50's. That is my favorite part of this whole messy business, and luckily I am not Brent or Dix, either... :)
 
It would be nice if those who are making a huge deal out of this would follow the request of Barack Obama.

He said "I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits ... And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be a topic of our politics."
 
RStringfield said:
Definition of conception from WebMD/Stedman's

http://dictionary.webmd.com/terms/conception


conception
Pronunciation (kon-sep′shŭn)

1. Act of forming a general idea or notion.
2. Fertilization of oocyte by a sperm.

[L. conceptio; see concept]
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RString, this entire part of the thread started because of my insistance that those who favor overturning Roe V Wade are not forcing their values on anyone, but are doing what they do because they believe life begins at conception.

If the medical world says conception begins before the zygote attaches to the uterine will, then chances pretty good that there is a misunderstanding about when "conception" happens.

Its obviously not due to lack of education (as you maintained when calling people names).




So my point, that wanting Roe V Wade overturned is not forcing their values on others, is still valid.

No matter when conception happens, if life begins when the embryo attaches to the uterine wall, an abortion kills a living human being.
 
Damocles said:
So, I'll post it again.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/understanding-conception

Pregnancy begins before conception.... etc. We can rinse and repeat as often as you want.
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You are clearly wrong as anybody with reading comprehension can see. Your article gives no clear definition of pregnancy or conception and I have posted WebMD's definition of conception = fertilization. BTW WebMD, using Stedman's again, define pregnancy as the term between conception and the end of gestation. So they are stating the beginning of a pregnancy and conception are the same thing, though most doctor's would not agree that pregnancy begins at fertilization.

Pregnancy is nearly always defined, by medical professionals as implantation. There is some ambiguity of conception, whether it means fertilization or implantation, your source come down on the side of fertilization.

What your article states in reference to pregnancy preceding conception regards the calculation of pregnancy. And it does so quite clearly in the first paragraph.

Most doctors calculate the start of pregnancy from the first day of your last menstrual period. This is called the "menstrual age" and is about two weeks ahead of when conception actually occurs.
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Pregnancy does not begin at the last menstrual cycle. That's retarded. It is simply useful for timing as it is something the woman is likely to notice and so it can pinpointed where as implantation cannot. No doctor will tell you, not even the religious wackos, that a woman actually becomes pregnant at the end of her last menstrual cycle.

Again, though, if it helps clear up your confusion just replace my use of conception with fertilization.
 
RStringfield said:
If you believe life begins at conception then you are a retarded hypocrite. When in the history of any society have fertilized eggs flushed regularly from a womans body been treated as a death, in ritual or legal matters.
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If you believe the above, then you are the one that is displaying idiotic/retarded tendencies. It doesn't matter how we "treat" the deaths in our legal systems. THAT doesn't define life. GENETICS defines when the life begins. But I know... you will ignore the SCIENCE, because it goes against your "opinions".
 
RStringfield said:
You are ignorant. Not all fertilized eggs successfully implant in the wall of the uterus. Between 30-50% are believed to fail and then are flushed out in the menstrual cycle.
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1) Yes, not all implant

2) Your statistic... what exactly is it based on? AN OPINION??? What are these "beliefs" based on? Has someone been following women around and checking disgarded eggs to see if they had been fertilized?

3) Even if that statistic is correct, it doesn't change the fact that a unique life begins at conception. If the fertilized egg does not implant, then it DIES... naturally. Whether we issue a death certificate or not doesn't change any of that.
 
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