Michigan: Right to Work defeats Right to Pork

Bijou said:
And it's really too bad that they are usually intimidated or fired when they try. I'll let you go research that one on your own, dullard.
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I can relate to that. Many years ago I was fired because I signed a paper saying I would support a union representing us. The union was shortly accredited and I got my job back with a 20% raise. That was my first experience with unions, my being fresh off the farm. :)
 
Stargazer said:
Then perhaps a union serves a purpose for 'miners'. This doesn't explain why teachers, automobile industry, etc. need unions.

The people should be able to decide if they want to join a union. I suspect all the miners would, and many in other industries would opt out, as we saw in Wisconsin.
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If people don't want to join unions, don't apply for work at a union shop. Why should non-union workers be entitled to the same benefits others fought for, and paid dues to keep?
 
Rune said:
You didn't prove anything.
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Several news reports detailing criminal violence by unions/union members in order to force a union gangland agenda.
That's proof.

You show that you are either intellectually incapable of utilizing the ignore facility provided or that you haven't the courage of your convictions, which is it?
 
apple0154 said:
I can relate to that. Many years ago I was fired because I signed a paper saying I would support a union representing us. The union was shortly accredited and I got my job back with a 20% raise. That was my first experience with unions, my being fresh off the farm. :)
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Couldn't make it on your own merits?
 
Stargazer said:
Then perhaps a union serves a purpose for 'miners'. This doesn't explain why teachers, automobile industry, etc. need unions.

The people should be able to decide if they want to join a union. I suspect all the miners would, and many in other industries would opt out, as we saw in Wisconsin.
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The left desire to abolish coal, how Does that help their beloved unionised miners?

Hypocrites!
 
apple0154 said:
I can relate to that. Many years ago I was fired because I signed a paper saying I would support a union representing us. The union was shortly accredited and I got my job back with a 20% raise. That was my first experience with unions, my being fresh off the farm. :)
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Those were the good old days and they're now long gone. Wal-Mart has set a precedent that drives down wages, destroys economies on a community level while enriching its owners to a grotesque degree, and corporations are blueprinting their example and making it their own.
 
christiefan915 said:
If people don't want to join unions, don't apply for work at a union shop. Why should non-union workers be entitled to the same benefits others fought for, and paid dues to keep?
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Because they are doing the same job. If someone prefers to deal directly with management instead of having a self serving stooge represent them, they should have that right. Believe it or not, people are capable of negotiating for themselves.
 
Stargazer said:
Because they are doing the same job. If someone prefers to deal directly with management instead of having a self serving stooge represent them, they should have that right. Believe it or not, people are capable of negotiating for themselves.
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Sure they can negotiate. But somehow I think the average sweathog has less to bargain with than the MBA looking for a management position. After all, sweathogs are interchangeable.
 
christiefan915 said:
Sure they can negotiate. But somehow I think the average sweathog has less to bargain with than the MBA looking for a management position. After all, sweathogs are interchangeable.
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There is a market value for every skill set, location also plays a role in that value. That amount can go up or down based on experience and education.

That is all anyone needs to know to negotiate.
 
Bijou said:
Those were the good old days and they're now long gone. Wal-Mart has set a precedent that drives down wages, destroys economies on a community level while enriching its owners to a grotesque degree, and corporations are blueprinting their example and making it their own.
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I have to say this downturn or change in the economy from the past has woken people up. Those who trampled on others during the boom times believing they were something special are losing their jobs and they still have a few years to go until retirement. They know they won't have as big a nest egg as they thought they'd have at retirement assuming they even make it, financially speaking. I think that played a big part in Obama's election. The "self-made" man is starting to realize that maybe he isn't going to make it, that maybe he'll never get another decent job again if he loses the one he has.
 
Stargazer said:
There is a market value for every skill set, location also plays a role in that value. That amount can go up or down based on experience and education.

That is all anyone needs to know to negotiate.
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Coal-mining is a learn as you go job for laborers. You don't take classes in swinging a pick or bolting a roof. And the same is true for many menial labor jobs.

I've lived my entire life in Western PA. Back in the day, coal and steel were it. Generations would go into the mines or the mill and they didn't get prepped for what they'd do. It was and is dirty, dangerous work and a union was all these men had to count on for decent wages and safe working conditions. Decades later they still can't count on those things. You can't negotiate up-to-date safety regulations in your contract. You take the job and you take your chances.
 
Rune said:
7% of the private sector, which only says that anti-union forces have been very successful.

When the last union is gone and wages plumment and benefits are eliminated you will understand, but it will be too late. Why do you support those who opress you?
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Starglazer? How's that right to work bullshit working out in "right to work" states? Ah, I see; lower wages and diminishing benefits. Just as I thought. Moron.
 
Rune said:
Starglazer? How's that right to work bullshit working out in "right to work" states? Ah, I see; lower wages and diminishing benefits. Just as I thought. Moron.
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Opponents of Right to Work like to point out that the average wage in Right to Work states is lower than the average wage in non-RTW states. For example, on the issue section of AFL-CIO’s website, they cite the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2001: “The average worker in a ‘right to work’ state earns about $5,333 less a year than workers in other states” (“RTW States Are”). Proponents of Right to Work do not dispute the above statistic, but suggest that the statistic is overly simplistic, manipulative and misleading.
On a nominal basis, wages are lower in Right to Work states, but proponents argue, and this paper confirms, that once the above statistic is adjusted for cost of living, real spending power is at least the same and perhaps higher in Right to Work states.

http://right-to-work-laws.johnwcooper.com/


Workers have rights, even if you don't like those rights.
 
bravo said:
Opponents of Right to Work like to point out that the average wage in Right to Work states is lower than the average wage in non-RTW states. For example, on the issue section of AFL-CIO’s website, they cite the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2001: “The average worker in a ‘right to work’ state earns about $5,333 less a year than workers in other states” (“RTW States Are”). Proponents of Right to Work do not dispute the above statistic, but suggest that the statistic is overly simplistic, manipulative and misleading.
On a nominal basis, wages are lower in Right to Work states, but proponents argue, and this paper confirms, that once the above statistic is adjusted for cost of living, real spending power is at least the same and perhaps higher in Right to Work states.

http://right-to-work-laws.johnwcooper.com/


Workers have rights, even if you don't like those rights.
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I've seen that argument made before. Rents are cheaper, etc. What about when a new right to work state doesn't have the lower cost of living yet? Do you think rent will magically lower itself? Do you think that the smaller pool of expendable income is going to help, or hurt the local economies?
 
Starglazer? Why do you hate fair wages?

Are you jealous that you couldn't qualify for a union job?
 
christiefan915 said:
Uh-huh. Massey Energy forced out unions and they're running one of the most corrupt industries ever. Surely it's not okay that miners die and safety infractions pile up just to keep CEO's like Blankenship in champagne and caviar?

"Massey forced the unions out, and now non-union coal miners have died in a coal mine cited for 600 violations in the past 18 months, so does the lack of a union contribute to safety concerns? "

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The point of you're rant should be that if any company, ANY, is getting citations for unsafe working condition from inspectors, GOV. inspectors I might add.... then its
obviously the gov. not doing their jobs by allowing these conditions to remain unaddressed....with or without unions....
Why do pinheads refuse to recognize where the real problems lie and who is ultimately at fault....its ineffective and incompetent gov. at fault......
Fix that, and the problems are solved.....thats what laws are for....enforce them.
 
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