Nuclear News Thread

[T. A. Gardner]

I think that the regular, ordinary Palestinians want peace and security so they can live their lives and do their thing...but I think the leadership has different goals.

It's a shame because if the two sides had agreed to the 2000 proposal, there'd be a vibrant, economically successful Palestinian state existing side by side with an equally vibrant, economically successful Israeli state.

I can agree to most of that. I think there is a sizable segment of the Palestinian population along with their leadership that wants revenge and perpetual war with Israel. Otherwise, Hamas wouldn't be ruling the Gaza Strip like a Mafiaesque street gang of thugs. But I also agree that many regular Palestinians are tired of that shit but have no power to change things.

 

[LV426]

The Russians requested secure borders- and were ignored.

Russia already had secured borders and in fact, violated the border of Ukraine way back in 2014.

 

[LV426]

Any material gains from absorbing previously-Ukrai nian territory will be viewed as compensation for the EU commerce that Biden, in his Nord-Stream frenzy, has denied them.

That's not how negotiations work, particularly if you're losing the war you started.

 

[moon]

Yes because Russia is also nuclear armed and is invading its neighbor using the same pretexts Israel uses to maintain control over the territories it occupies.

Neither state has a legitimate historical claim to anything, and neither state is truly threatened at its borders.

That's not true either. The Palestinians are unarmed. The US- among others - has been arming Ukraine for years.
Further, no Palestinians wanted to be absorbed by Israel whereas almost ALL of the pro-Russian people absorbed by Russia wanted Russian protection and integration.

 

[LV426]

Are you aware that US oligarchs had already purchased huge swathes of Ukrainian agricultural assets ?

This sounds inaccurate.

True- the US-led coup was in 2014

The coup that resulted in Russia illegally occupying Ukrainian land?

Are you sure you know who is on the right side here?

Biden's focus on EU/Russian ties - and how to destroy them - lays the war right on his indoor slippers.

Those ties were already destroyed by Putin a long, long time ago.

 

[moon]

This sounds inaccurate.




The coup that resulted in Russia illegally occupying Ukrainian land?

Are you sure you know who is on the right side here?




Those ties were already destroyed by Putin a long, long time ago.

I'm sorry- but you don't appear to have a grip on the reality of events. Just look up what I've said and you'll find it factual.

 

[moon]

That's not how negotiations work, particularly if you're losing the war you started.

We'll see.

 

[LV426]

That's not true either

Completely and totally true.

Russia has about as much threat on its borders as Israel does.

It's no coincidence that Putin is using the same ahistorical justification for occupying Ukraine as Israel uses for occupying the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

Same tactics. Same strategy. Same excuses.

Shame you can't see that.

 

[LV426]

The Palestinians are unarmed. The US- among others - has been arming Ukraine for years.

The Palestinians have been armed by Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey before. So let's chill on that "unarmed" shit.

Secondly, Ukraine is a US ally, so of course we are going to arm them...just like how Russia armed their ally, Syria, during the Civil War there not too far away from Ukraine and Israel's borders.

 

[LV426]

Further, no Palestinians wanted to be absorbed by Israel whereas almost ALL of the pro-Russian people absorbed by Russia wanted Russian protection and integration.

Well, aren't there also Israelis who are living in the West Bank who very much want Israel to "absorb" it?

Now you're beginning to understand the situation...minority claim to ownership of land is a fallacy.

I bet that if you polled all the Israelis who live in the West Bank like they "polled" all the Russians who live in Crimea, you probably will get the same kind of overwhelming response.

 

[LV426]

I'm sorry- but you don't appear to have a grip on the reality of events. Just look up what I've said and you'll find it factual.

The events:

Russia invaded Ukraine after pretending that there was a threat at their border, and that they had some kind of ethno-cultural claim...those are the same two justifications Israel uses to maintain its hold on the territories.

It's a shame you can't see that.

 

[LV426]

We'll see.

I think what's most likely to happen is that there will be a stalemate until Putin dies...then Russia will leave Ukraine - ALL OF IT.

 

[moon]

Completely and totally true.

Russia has about as much threat on its borders as Israel does.

You have no idea what you're saying.

It's no coincidence that Putin is using the same ahistorical justification for occupying Ukraine as Israel uses for occupying the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

Same tactics. Same strategy. Same excuses.

Shame you can't see that.

But that's simply untrue. Prove your point- show the results of a Palestinian referendum asking to be occupied by Jewish fascists.

You won't be able to, of course.

Meanwhile here are some facts on purchases of Ukrainian agriculture to set you thinking;

Analysis. Despite the moratorium on land sales to foreigners, by 2016, ten multinationals controlled 2.8 million hectares of Ukrainian land. Today, some estimates speak of 3.4 million hectares.

The truth about corporations taking over Ukrainian agricultural lands

https://global.ilmanifesto.it/the-truth-about-corporations-taking-over-ukrainian-agricultural-lands/

This war isn't about Ukraine's ' self-determination '. It's about US commerce , fossil fuels and - predominantly- wheat.
The pro-Russian Ukrainian government rejected GM crops. Have a look and see what's happened since.

 

[LV426]

You have no idea what you're saying.

Bro, I know more about I/P than you can even dream of...there is no threat on Russia's borders that justify an invasion, nor was there any historical claim Russia had to the territory it occupied, same as Israel.

 

[LV426]

But that's simply untrue. Prove your point- show the results of a Palestinian referendum asking to be occupied by Jewish fascists.

There hasn't been a referendum because they can't legally hold one without the Palestinians.

The "referendum" in Ukraine was not recognized by any international body and in fact, was illegal under Ukrainian law.

 

[Lionfish]

The Germans were not expecting an insane US president with a remit to destroy Russo/EU relations.
They will reforge ties with Russia when Biden's war is concluded- but they'll have to guard the pipelines to prevent the mad old fucker from destroying them again.

The French will want Russian gas too.

Germany was warned as was the rest of NATO. Do not put all your eggs in one basket, especially if that basket is the enemy. Now Germany is cutting down their forests to heat their homes. Bad leaders bring bad consequences. Germany is a prime example.

 

[LV426]

Analysis. Despite the moratorium on land sales to foreigners, by 2016, ten multinationals controlled 2.8 million hectares of Ukrainian land. Today, some estimates speak of 3.4 million hectares.

So this is the justification you're using now for Putin's war?

I thought it was a historical claim at first, then a border security claim, and now the claim is foreign investment BAD?

You realize you've moved the goalposts, right?

You've moved them so much that they're meaningless now.

 

[moon]

Well, aren't there also Israelis who are living in the West Bank who very much want Israel to "absorb" it?

The squatters are not Palestinians , are they

Now you're beginning to understand the situation...minority claim to ownership of land is a fallacy.

You can't comprehend that occupation and annexation are illegal ? Oh dear.

I bet that if you polled all the Israelis who live in the West Bank like they "polled" all the Russians who live in Crimea, you probably will get the same kind of overwhelming response.

Israelis are in the West Bank illegitimately. They are required, by law, to leave.

 

[Lionfish]

The squatters are not Palestinians , are they



You can't comprehend that occupation and annexation are illegal ? Oh dear.



Israelis are in the West Bank illegitimately. They are required, by law, to leave.

Da Jews, it's da Jews.

 

[LV426]

This war isn't about Ukraine's ' self-determination '. It's about US commerce , fossil fuels and - predominantly- wheat.

So foreign investment in infrastructure is a provocation that justifies an invasion and indiscriminate bombing campaign against civilians?

If Israel did that you'd flip out and start no less than a dozen threads on JPP about it.