Forensic expert: Trayvon Martin shot leaning over George Zimmerman

Jarod said:
I cant speak for others, but I have a strong desire to never be in a situation where I feel it necessary to kill someone.

I would never get out of my car and follow someone I perceived as a threat, I might follow in my car at a distance.
If anyone turned and asked me in a menacing way why I was following them, I would likely back off and be polite.
If attacked, I would hope I would fight free then run.
If unable to run and in fear for my life and had a gun, I would hope I would:
1) Scream bloody murder for help.
2) Spray mace, then run.
3) Shoot in the leg or testacies, then run.
4) If only option, shoot to kill, then run.


I think this Zimmerman fancied himself as some kind of vigilantly avenger with a power obsession, the situation (partly created by Zimmerman) played into some strange savior fantasy. A murder conviction does not seem right in this case, but Zimmerman getting off completely does not either. Id be happy with time served and 10 years of probation requiring psychiatric treatment.
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and you were ALMOST reasonable.
 
Socrtease said:
Here's what I believe. I believe that GZ was a wannabe tough guy, make believe cop. I think that his avatar on a political website would probably be Clint Eastwood. I believe that GZ saw a black kid in the neighborhood and immediately decided he was there to rob or burglarize someone. I believe he followed TM in a way that most of us dads would not want ANY of our kids followed and if we saw someone doing it we would have "words" with him. I also believe that TM saw GZ following him, and because he was a 17 year old male, a creature that has little understanding of and even less respect for his own mortality, turn on GZ and walked toward him. I also believe but cannot prove it, that when TM turned on GZ and approached him, at some point GZ pulled his weapon, TM jumped on him before he could fire, they went to the ground, struggled, TM was trying to beat to shit out of the guy that pulled his weapon on him and during the fight the gun went off and killed TM. Like I said, that is what I believe. I cannot prove it and speculation is NOT evidence and is NOT to guide the decision making ability of the jury.

Unfortunately for TM and his family, the prosecution in this case has sucked buttermilk through a nasty ass straw. They have failed miserably at proving 2d murder, and may not even get a manslaughter out of this.
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Thank you, I also believe Zimmerman had his weapon out before the shuffle but because this prosecution sucks this hasn't come out. I also believe it is why Zimmerman won't testify.
 
Socrtease said:
Here's what I believe. I believe that GZ was a wannabe tough guy, make believe cop. I think that his avatar on a political website would probably be Clint Eastwood. I believe that GZ saw a black kid in the neighborhood and immediately decided he was there to rob or burglarize someone. I believe he followed TM in a way that most of us dads would not want ANY of our kids followed and if we saw someone doing it we would have "words" with him. I also believe that TM saw GZ following him, and because he was a 17 year old male, a creature that has little understanding of and even less respect for his own mortality, turn on GZ and walked toward him. I also believe but cannot prove it, that when TM turned on GZ and approached him, at some point GZ pulled his weapon, TM jumped on him before he could fire, they went to the ground, struggled, TM was trying to beat to shit out of the guy that pulled his weapon on him and during the fight the gun went off and killed TM. Like I said, that is what I believe. I cannot prove it and speculation is NOT evidence and is NOT to guide the decision making ability of the jury.

Unfortunately for TM and his family, the prosecution in this case has sucked buttermilk through a nasty ass straw. They have failed miserably at proving 2d murder, and may not even get a manslaughter out of this.
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I suspect you are correct, what do you believe would be the proper punishment for GZ, regardless of the verdict?
 
christiefan915 said:
The forensic guy said TM would have lost about 50% of his blood in the first couple of minutes. And his clothes were described as "blood-soaked".
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the body will still bleed and the wound will still drain, which MIGHT explain the soaked blood.

christiefan915 said:
The stooges at the police dept. didn't store TM's clothing properly and it got mildewed, which meant the evidence got degraded.
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is this in testimony or just your opinion?
 
Socrtease said:
Here's what I believe. I believe that GZ was a wannabe tough guy, make believe cop.

So everyone in a neighborhood watch is a wannabe tough guy now

I think that his avatar on a political website would probably be Clint Eastwood.

complete bullshit

I believe that GZ saw a black kid in the neighborhood and immediately decided he was there to rob or burglarize someone.

Given that there was a recent spate of burglaries and home invasions by black kids, that wasn't a big leap don't you think? Or is our politically correct sunglasses to prevent us thinking black people can EVER do anything bad?

I believe he followed TM in a way that most of us dads would not want ANY of our kids followed and if we saw someone doing it we would have "words" with him.

There ways people can follow your kids that WON'T bother you? BTW, if someone is following MY kid, I teach them to get to safety not confront the person who is following them

I also believe that TM saw GZ following him, and because he was a 17 year old male, a creature that has little understanding of and even less respect for his own mortality, turn on GZ and walked toward him.

Now this is the part of Team Trayvons clouded vision that makes me laugh the most. They actually argue that it is normal for someone who is fearful of someone following them to turn and confront their follower. It strains credulity to believe such nonsense.

I also believe but cannot prove it, that when TM turned on GZ and approached him, at some point GZ pulled his weapon, TM jumped on him before he could fire, they went to the ground, struggled, TM was trying to beat to shit out of the guy that pulled his weapon on him and during the fight the gun went off and killed TM. Like I said, that is what I believe. I cannot prove it and speculation is NOT evidence and is NOT to guide the decision making ability of the jury.

Unfortunately for TM and his family, the prosecution in this case has sucked buttermilk through a nasty ass straw. They have failed miserably at proving 2d murder, and may not even get a manslaughter out of this.
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Unfortunately for TM and his family, it would appear he was raised in an unstable home environment with divorced parents and unfortunately for TM and his family TM appears to be a street thug whose actions wrote a check his ass couldn't cash. Now before all of your race baiters get all uppity, I am not saying that Trayvon deserved to die. What happened is a tragedy on many levels. But it is amazing that you people think Trayvon had ZERO culpability in what happened.
 
Socrtease said:
Here's what I believe. I believe that GZ was a wannabe tough guy, make believe cop. I think that his avatar on a political website would probably be Clint Eastwood. I believe that GZ saw a black kid in the neighborhood and immediately decided he was there to rob or burglarize someone. I believe he followed TM in a way that most of us dads would not want ANY of our kids followed and if we saw someone doing it we would have "words" with him. I also believe that TM saw GZ following him, and because he was a 17 year old male, a creature that has little understanding of and even less respect for his own mortality, turn on GZ and walked toward him. I also believe but cannot prove it, that when TM turned on GZ and approached him, at some point GZ pulled his weapon, TM jumped on him before he could fire, they went to the ground, struggled, TM was trying to beat to shit out of the guy that pulled his weapon on him and during the fight the gun went off and killed TM. Like I said, that is what I believe. I cannot prove it and speculation is NOT evidence and is NOT to guide the decision making ability of the jury.

Unfortunately for TM and his family, the prosecution in this case has sucked buttermilk through a nasty ass straw. They have failed miserably at proving 2d murder, and may not even get a manslaughter out of this.
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this is pretty close to what I think happened.

I think he tried to play tough guy with a gun and the kid ( humans under 25 don't have an adults concept of the inherent risks in a situation, this is what science says) and the kid punched him in the mouth and tried to take tha threat out.


Zimmy I bet didn't even mean to shoot him.

BUTT made up a story to keep from even being arrested
 
evince said:
I type it real slow for you.



IF as zimmy claims he was pinned down how could he reach a gun in a holster inside his pants on one side of his back.


If he could raise up enough to get his gun he could raise up enough to buck the kid off.


thems the facts
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You have obviously never been in a fight. Which I don't find surprising given your lovely and charming personality :)
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the body will still bleed and the wound will still drain, which MIGHT explain the soaked blood.


is this in testimony or just your opinion?
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My opinion is that TM wasn't shot at as close a range as GZ alleges. Here's a link to the clothing part: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/09/3491692/lawyers-argue-over-animation-evidence.html

Di Maio said he concluded:
• DNA and other evidence from Trayvon’s hooded sweatshirt may have been compromised because crime-scene technicians improperly stored Trayvon’s wet clothes in plastic bags. Wet evidence should be allowed to dry out and be packaged in paper bags that allow it to “breathe,” Di Maio said.
 
Socrtease said:
Here's what I believe. I believe that GZ was a wannabe tough guy, make believe cop. I think that his avatar on a political website would probably be Clint Eastwood. I believe that GZ saw a black kid in the neighborhood and immediately decided he was there to rob or burglarize someone. I believe he followed TM in a way that most of us dads would not want ANY of our kids followed and if we saw someone doing it we would have "words" with him. I also believe that TM saw GZ following him, and because he was a 17 year old male, a creature that has little understanding of and even less respect for his own mortality, turn on GZ and walked toward him. I also believe but cannot prove it, that when TM turned on GZ and approached him, at some point GZ pulled his weapon, TM jumped on him before he could fire, they went to the ground, struggled, TM was trying to beat to shit out of the guy that pulled his weapon on him and during the fight the gun went off and killed TM. Like I said, that is what I believe. I cannot prove it and speculation is NOT evidence and is NOT to guide the decision making ability of the jury.

Unfortunately for TM and his family, the prosecution in this case has sucked buttermilk through a nasty ass straw. They have failed miserably at proving 2d murder, and may not even get a manslaughter out of this.
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You were doing fine at the beginning and then went dopwnhill. According to TM's girlfriend's testimony(which I believe). She told him to run he stated he wouldn't run but walk fast or sprint. When he thought he lost GZ he stopped running. GZ was still in pursuit.

The gun scenario is unlikley. More then likely GZ tried to grab TM so he doesn't "get away" and the altercation began. I NOW believe GZ was on top calling for help(back up). And he shot him because he feared TM breaking free.

Your opinion contradicts too much of the known facts.
 
christiefan915 said:
My opinion is that TM wasn't shot at as close a range as GZ alleges. Here's a link to the clothing part: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/09/3491692/lawyers-argue-over-animation-evidence.html

Di Maio said he concluded:
• DNA and other evidence from Trayvon’s hooded sweatshirt may have been compromised because crime-scene technicians improperly stored Trayvon’s wet clothes in plastic bags. Wet evidence should be allowed to dry out and be packaged in paper bags that allow it to “breathe,” Di Maio said.
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has there been any internal investigation as to why proper crime scene investigations were not applied? I would think that this would be clear policy.
 
Professor Baxter said:
This is an exception to the self defense defense.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.041.html

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

Zimmerman provoked the use of force.
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This has not been decided. There really is no evidence to this fact. Following someone is not a provokation, it does not give one carte blanche to just beat on you. In terms of the actual violent confrontation, it was Trayvon. Furthormore it does not address the claim of self defense. If I bitch slap you in the face, you can't come back at me and beat me with a baseball bat. At some point, if I have tried to deflate the confrontation, or to flee, or if your response is NOT PROPORTIONAL, then self defense comes back into play.

It was not reasonable for him to believe that he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm
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your opinion, but this assertion is not consistent with the plethora of witness testimony, at best the States witnesses have all claimed that zimmermans account is not inconsistent with the evidence, not even that woman ME who by far was the most in the bag for the State. Root today has elaborated in great detail that zimmerman had exhausted every option, and that zimmermans only choice at that point was to use his weapon.

How long are you supposed to wait while you are getting your head slammed? Do you know how long 40 seconds is when you are getting beaten and slammed against the sidewalk? Do you rate each hit to the head on a scale of 1 to 10, and contemplate how bad they are? Could your perception be off when you are sustaining these injuries? Could hits to the head be extremely painful (even if the injuries themselves may be superficial)? I say yes. Maybe of the witnesses say yes as well.

AND there is no proof that he EVER tried to escape danger.
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There is proof he tried to use other options. For starters, he waited 40 seconds while being beaten. Witnesses have testified that he was screaming for help, calling for help and assistance. He tried "shrimping" according to his testimony to wriggle out of the assault. When one of the witnesses came outside and told trayvon to stop, trayvon kept going, even in spite of a 3rd party telling him to quit. There was no foreseeable end in site. At that point, the blows kept coming, how bad would the next injury have been?

I think if the jury reads the law, and I would be shocked if they don't, Zimmerman is fucked.
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you honestly need to be from another planet to have this conclusion. I know it's anecdotal, but the vast majority of legal analysts on TV/twitter/in written articles online are all saying acquittal here is the most likely outcome . .by far.*

*unless retard zimmerman takes the stand today, which is now a new possibility.

p.s. I am not reading 3 pages of this thread.
 
Pete Campbell said:
This has not been decided. There really is no evidence to this fact. Following someone is not a provokation, it does not give one carte blanche to just beat on you. In terms of the actual violent confrontation, it was Trayvon. Furthormore it does not address the claim of self defense. If I bitch slap you in the face, you can't come back at me and beat me with a baseball bat. At some point, if I have tried to deflate the confrontation, or to flee, or if your response is NOT PROPORTIONAL, then self defense comes back into play.



your opinion, but this assertion is not consistent with the plethora of witness testimony, at best the States witnesses have all claimed that zimmermans account is not inconsistent with the evidence, not even that woman ME who by far was the most in the bag for the State. Root today has elaborated in great detail that zimmerman had exhausted every option, and that zimmermans only choice at that point was to use his weapon.

How long are you supposed to wait while you are getting your head slammed? Do you know how long 40 seconds is when you are getting beaten and slammed against the sidewalk? Do you rate each hit to the head on a scale of 1 to 10, and contemplate how bad they are? Could your perception be off when you are sustaining these injuries? Could hits to the head be extremely painful (even if the injuries themselves may be superficial)? I say yes. Maybe of the witnesses say yes as well.



There is proof he tried to use other options. For starters, he waited 40 seconds while being beaten. Witnesses have testified that he was screaming for help, calling for help and assistance. He tried "shrimping" according to his testimony to wriggle out of the assault. When one of the witnesses came outside and told trayvon to stop, trayvon kept going, even in spite of a 3rd party telling him to quit. There was no foreseeable end in site. At that point, the blows kept coming, how bad would the next injury have been?



you honestly need to be from another planet to have this conclusion. I know it's anecdotal, but the vast majority of legal analysts on TV/twitter/in written articles online are all saying acquittal here is the most likely outcome . .by far.*

*unless retard zimmerman takes the stand today, which is now a new possibility.

p.s. I am not reading 3 pages of this thread.
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The only evidence we have that Trayvon initiated the fight was Zimmerman, Zimmerman is not believable, I would convince the jury of this point.
 
wiseones2cents said:
You were doing fine at the beginning and then went dopwnhill. According to TM's girlfriend's testimony(which I believe). She told him to run he stated he wouldn't run but walk fast or sprint. When he thought he lost GZ he stopped running. GZ was still in pursuit.

The gun scenario is unlikley. More then likely GZ tried to grab TM so he doesn't "get away" and the altercation began. I NOW believe GZ was on top calling for help(back up). And he shot him because he feared TM breaking free.

Your opinion contradicts too much of the known facts.
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The citizens arrest theory makes sense to me.

Maybe TM was walking away and GZ grabbed him and said, "your not going anywhere buddy", then a fight ensued.
 
Rana said:
The only evidence we have that Trayvon initiated the fight was Zimmerman, Zimmerman is not believable, I would convince the jury of this point.
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he has proven to have changed his story.

That is in the record.


A liar will lie to protect themselves.


if you lie to protect yourself then your uncontested account can be completely ignored
 
evince said:
he has proven to have changed his story.

That is in the record.


A liar will lie to protect themselves.


if you lie to protect yourself then your uncontested account can be completely ignored
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you still have to convict beyond a reasonable doubt, and given the forensic testimony being provided, I don't see a conviction happening.
 
I also think that dumb ass Zimmerman is desperate to testify and his lawyers, if they are any good, are trying to counsel him on why that is a terrible idea in this case.

Zimmerman likely wants to testify but you run the risk of A) him coming off like an ass, or B) having a Few Good Men... "You Cant Handel the Truth", type moment.
 
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