Are you worried your Medicaid will change? That you might have to pay more than $1 for something?
Some questions for our leftist friends at JPP.
- Thread starter Robo
- Start date
Are you worried your Medicaid will change? That you might have to pay more than $1 for something?
My problem is the administrative and overhead costs that puts as much as 20 cents of every premium dollar into the pocket of the insurance company, and a system that focuses on treatment of symptoms rather than long-term outcomes to fulfill profit motives.
I'm not on Medicaid, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you are.
Nope. I have my own plan and it ain't cheap.
Then single payer would be really great for you since it would mean you spend less in payroll taxes than you do on premiums, deductibles, coinsurance, copays, and prescription drug costs.
The single payer will also increase your choice of doctors since it renders provider networks moot. Do you not like choice?
Do you have an employer-provided plan, or do you get yours off the exchanges?
Robo
Verified User
That’s exactly what you’re proposing with single payer with the pretense that a waiting list that guarantees I die before I get care is somehow thisgreat compassionate system that cares for everybody. It’s a pipe dream!!
Well good buddy, I survive by “for profit” health-CARE. I actually earned it! My employer and I had and still have a magnificent agreement, I worked hard, minded my own business and made a nasty old “PROFIT” for them for near 50 years and they contributed a larger share to my lifetime healthcare. Tat opportunity is available for every American, I’m no exception. I was smart enough in my youth to prepare for a job I loved and a future I never expected to be this long, but I’m thankful for it!!!
Single payer proposals don't cut health care for seniors. I was just being glib.
You're on Medicare. Stop.
Robo
Verified User
Then you need to stop voting for the swamp rats of BOTH duopoly parties. You need to demand they get their unconstitutional asses out of the healthcare insurance business. You see friend it's you that are really the problem you bitch about!!!
No, what we need to do is ignore those who take $$ from HIPPA and PHarma. All of whom are opposed to M4A.
So if insurance companies are opposed to it, and drug companies are opposed to it, and you blame both for corruption, then why are you siding with them?
Your position is cognitive dissonance and here's how:
You think insurance plans should be sold across state lines, but you also think states have the 10th Amendment right to regulate their own market as they see fit. So in order for your plan to have insurance sold across state lines, you'd need federalism to overrule state regulations so out-of-state plans can be offered in a state's market.
So that would be the opposite of a pro-10th Amendment position.
You're the problem because you're old as fuck, and you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Robo
Verified User
I was not on Medicare until I turned 65, that's the law! I survived very nicely for 65 years on "FOR PROFIT" health insurance that was the best on earth until the feds decided they'd unconstitutionally meddle in it and fuck everything up and cause me to make co-pays and deductibles. I also pay into the unconstitutional Medicare program by law! I have a Medicare ADVANTAGE program. My employer is still very much involved in my healthcare insurance policy!!!
So you're currently on a government-run insurance plan, while trying to fearmonger the threats of the system you are already in and are happy with.
What a fucking idiot.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Robo,
I have no problem explaining the logic behind my positions. It actually sounds like we are very similar in one respect. We struggle to understand why the other side feels the way they do. It appears to make no sense. I know we believe differently, so how do we feel justified in our own beliefs when others feel so differently? We share a curiosity to understand what motivates the other side. If we can understand it better, then we can find the fallacies of the other side, and that makes us feel more confident in our own beliefs.
That's basically why I participate here. I want to hear why Trump supporters back him up. As soon as I hear baloney reasons, that makes me feel more justified in my own beliefs. If somebody points out something I got wrong, then I want to know that, too. In that case, I would modify my position. So far, that hasn't happened very much. What I see is that Trump supporters appear to be emotionally motivated by hatred of immigrants and government. I think hatred of government is ridiculous. This is the same government we built! And the one which we can change at will, change for the better.
Faith in the founders. Our Constitution is so amazing, so beautiful I cam constantly in awe. It sets up our government. To me, if you hate the government, that is the same as hating the Constitution which sets it all up. I trust our government FAR more than I trust for-profit mega corporations. Corporations have ripped me off my entire life. They are relentless at coming up with new ways to extract my wealth away from me and give it to the very rich. I don't trust them for an instant to do the right thing. I have no representation with corporations. I have well established representation with government. It is all established by our beautiful Constitution.
Whatever it takes. I know that a system with profits built in has to cost more than one where the goal is actually providing health care.
Whatever can be reasonably provided. If a treatment is too expensive, logically that cannot be provided.
Whatever can be reasonably provided. I don't think I am special nor deserve higher quality than can be provided to all. I actually believe the quality of health care will rise when the goal of the system is to provide the best quality of health care possible for everyone, rather than to make the most money.
If it's not an emergency I am willing to wait my fair turn. That seems reasonable. Why would I be entitled to anything that anyone else isn't? If wait times are too long, then services need to be expanded to meet the demand. Seems simple enough. Just basic logic.
The rich should pay more. The poor should pay nothing. Just like all normal progressive taxing. Taxing the rich more is what makes America great. We could not possibly be as great if we could only afford the government which could be had with a flat tax that everyone including the poor could afford.
That's a misleading question. You and your doctors do not currently make that decision. It is made by the for-profit insurance industry. And the term 'federal government bureaucrat' is a loaded term designed to elicit a predicted response. These decisions need to be made on the basis of availability and cost. There should probably be boards of experts to make the determinations in tough cases. These boards should be subject to public oversight, and comprised of people who work for and answer to us, we the people.
You and your family, normally, and under guidelines set up logically by the system. Nobody should be able to bleed the system dry hanging on to a hopeless case. But hey. If you want to pay for endless support for a vegetable and you've got the money that's your business.
I don't see why it needs to be. If you want to pay more to get ripped off and make the profiteers richer, that should be your business. But there should be no break in taxes because you opt out. Anything you want to pay for is above and beyond your tax obligation. Knock yourself out making the rich richer.
It should cost less per person than it currently does. The reason is that if no other changes are made besides cutting out the middle man profits of the insurance industry money-handlers (take in money, pay out money, keep some money) then those savings are spread across the system.
Taxes will be higher to pay for it, but mostly for the super-rich. There will be huge savings for workers because there will be no insurance deductions from paychecks. It doesn't have to cost most workers more to cover all the currently not-covered people, because all we have to do is tax the super-rich more to pay for it.
Believe me, the super-rich can afford it. Most people don't even understand just how rich they are. Executive pay used to be 10-15 times the average worker pay. That made them very rich. Now it is more like 500 times the AVERAGE paycheck. That has made them SUPER-rich. All that wealth has been sequestered out of circulation, put into business ventures designed not to provide jobs but to make the rich even richer. Too much wealth is concentrated at the top. The economy will be healthier with more wealth in active circulation. That concentrated wealth can be put to work for society by redistributing a lot of it. The richest will still be the richest. They will simply need to help the rest more.
Bonus! When we decouple health insurance from working we get two very huge advantages for the USA:
1. Our businesses will be more competitive in the world market when they do not have to provide health care as an incentive for workers.
2. More entrepreneurism! MANY people who might wish to try to start a business don't because if they quit their job and try to go it on their own they lose their health care. Without this constraint, more people would be free to pursue their business dreams. Small business is the biggest employer in the USA. This will help our economy.
I have no problem explaining the logic behind my positions. It actually sounds like we are very similar in one respect. We struggle to understand why the other side feels the way they do. It appears to make no sense. I know we believe differently, so how do we feel justified in our own beliefs when others feel so differently? We share a curiosity to understand what motivates the other side. If we can understand it better, then we can find the fallacies of the other side, and that makes us feel more confident in our own beliefs.
That's basically why I participate here. I want to hear why Trump supporters back him up. As soon as I hear baloney reasons, that makes me feel more justified in my own beliefs. If somebody points out something I got wrong, then I want to know that, too. In that case, I would modify my position. So far, that hasn't happened very much. What I see is that Trump supporters appear to be emotionally motivated by hatred of immigrants and government. I think hatred of government is ridiculous. This is the same government we built! And the one which we can change at will, change for the better.
Faith in the founders. Our Constitution is so amazing, so beautiful I cam constantly in awe. It sets up our government. To me, if you hate the government, that is the same as hating the Constitution which sets it all up. I trust our government FAR more than I trust for-profit mega corporations. Corporations have ripped me off my entire life. They are relentless at coming up with new ways to extract my wealth away from me and give it to the very rich. I don't trust them for an instant to do the right thing. I have no representation with corporations. I have well established representation with government. It is all established by our beautiful Constitution.
Whatever it takes. I know that a system with profits built in has to cost more than one where the goal is actually providing health care.
Whatever can be reasonably provided. If a treatment is too expensive, logically that cannot be provided.
Whatever can be reasonably provided. I don't think I am special nor deserve higher quality than can be provided to all. I actually believe the quality of health care will rise when the goal of the system is to provide the best quality of health care possible for everyone, rather than to make the most money.
If it's not an emergency I am willing to wait my fair turn. That seems reasonable. Why would I be entitled to anything that anyone else isn't? If wait times are too long, then services need to be expanded to meet the demand. Seems simple enough. Just basic logic.
The rich should pay more. The poor should pay nothing. Just like all normal progressive taxing. Taxing the rich more is what makes America great. We could not possibly be as great if we could only afford the government which could be had with a flat tax that everyone including the poor could afford.
That's a misleading question. You and your doctors do not currently make that decision. It is made by the for-profit insurance industry. And the term 'federal government bureaucrat' is a loaded term designed to elicit a predicted response. These decisions need to be made on the basis of availability and cost. There should probably be boards of experts to make the determinations in tough cases. These boards should be subject to public oversight, and comprised of people who work for and answer to us, we the people.
You and your family, normally, and under guidelines set up logically by the system. Nobody should be able to bleed the system dry hanging on to a hopeless case. But hey. If you want to pay for endless support for a vegetable and you've got the money that's your business.
I don't see why it needs to be. If you want to pay more to get ripped off and make the profiteers richer, that should be your business. But there should be no break in taxes because you opt out. Anything you want to pay for is above and beyond your tax obligation. Knock yourself out making the rich richer.
It should cost less per person than it currently does. The reason is that if no other changes are made besides cutting out the middle man profits of the insurance industry money-handlers (take in money, pay out money, keep some money) then those savings are spread across the system.
Taxes will be higher to pay for it, but mostly for the super-rich. There will be huge savings for workers because there will be no insurance deductions from paychecks. It doesn't have to cost most workers more to cover all the currently not-covered people, because all we have to do is tax the super-rich more to pay for it.
Believe me, the super-rich can afford it. Most people don't even understand just how rich they are. Executive pay used to be 10-15 times the average worker pay. That made them very rich. Now it is more like 500 times the AVERAGE paycheck. That has made them SUPER-rich. All that wealth has been sequestered out of circulation, put into business ventures designed not to provide jobs but to make the rich even richer. Too much wealth is concentrated at the top. The economy will be healthier with more wealth in active circulation. That concentrated wealth can be put to work for society by redistributing a lot of it. The richest will still be the richest. They will simply need to help the rest more.
Bonus! When we decouple health insurance from working we get two very huge advantages for the USA:
1. Our businesses will be more competitive in the world market when they do not have to provide health care as an incentive for workers.
2. More entrepreneurism! MANY people who might wish to try to start a business don't because if they quit their job and try to go it on their own they lose their health care. Without this constraint, more people would be free to pursue their business dreams. Small business is the biggest employer in the USA. This will help our economy.
When Obamacare was passed, you were 74 years old and had already been on Medicare for 9 years.
So something in your story is weird.
There's something fishy about what you're saying.
Not anymore! You haven't paid into Medicare since you retired. If you thin Medicare is unconstitutional, then why do you use it?
Because you're a hypocrite.
No they're not. That's bullshit. Employers don't pay for MA. Your story is full of glaring plotholes.
I'm retired early. My plan is through the network of a local medical center, but it's OK with me. My Dr.s are very good. I have high deductibles, though.
My plan is not off the exchanges, they are almost as expensive. I budgeted for healthcare before I retired, even figured for increases. I'll be 62 in 3 1/2 yrs.
You might think your doctors are very good, but what's your frame of reference?
I think everyone thinks their doctor is the best, but without the ability to choose whichever doctor you want, how do you know that your doctor is the best for sure????
You don't know if your doctor is actually the best for you because of the limitations of your provider network tied to your insurance coverage.
There could be a better doctor out there for you, you just don't know it because you don't have the option to choose any doctor you want.
Well, I wish you the best of luck until you reach Medicare eligibility. It's very risky to do what you're doing, so I must give you credit for that.
If a single payer system were to be implemented tomorrow, and you're retired so you're not drawing a paycheck that can impose the payroll tax, then you'd end up spending virtually nothing to get health care.
Is that better than spending however much you spend now?
Robo
Verified User
Where in anything I’ve ever said did you conclude I opposed the Federal government’s constitutional power to regulate interstate Commerce in accord with Article One Section Eight?
Explain to me why a state, any State cannot be required to regulate health insurance plans within the confines of Federal Commerce law and the constitutional rights of the people guaranteed by the Constitution!!!
The 10th Amendment doesn’t authorize the States to violate constitutional law!!!!!
Well friend I never had any doubt that sooner or later you’d stoop to the juvenile insults in keeping with your true leftist tradition. I thank you good buddy for your never-ending evidence of your childish sandbox nature and your mother’s upbringing!!!